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Re: My instantaneous point of view

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: My instantaneous point of view
Date 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
Message-ID <e1vg8gFa0fcU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <e1v5m7F7qg8U1@mid.individual.net> <784d5b96-dc30-4091-9a35-3b8215a8bd67@googlegroups.com> <3a9cb0fe-b2f8-4a3f-bf30-131c33dae0a6@googlegroups.com> <0462b7c6-2605-49a4-b2b2-5e702c536de6@googlegroups.com> <85c15dd2-d09d-462a-917d-0b4f29e0367e@googlegroups.com>

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On 22/08/2016 1:39 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to
>>>>>>>>>> Earth, one second if one-way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the
>>>>>>>> "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum visual
>>>>>>>> acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it was
>>>>>>> initially covered up. Then, when a laser pulse hits the
>>>>>>> retro-reflector, the large screen was uncovered. Do you
>>>>>>> maintain that the largeness of the screen could be
>>>>>>> observed before the returning laser pulse reaches the
>>>>>>> Earth?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe the
>>>>> photons representing the largeness of the screen before the
>>>>> photons in the returning laser pulse, the former would have
>>>>> to travel faster than the latter. Why would they travel
>>>>> faster? How would they know that they should travel faster?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure "photons"
>>>> from which the very nature of its' meaning is traveling. Don't
>>>> think like this. Think about why the object is large as it is
>>>> and what makes this possible. Then you go right away to the
>>>> screen of photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of
>>>> the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the
>>>> satellite sends back.
>>> This is the only way you are going to spatially be able to tell a
>>> time difference.
>>
>> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like it or not.
>
> For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse to believe that
> the 22 minutes of the six month variation of occultation of the
> Jupiter's two main moons have anything to do with the speed of light.
> I believe the 22 minutes means something else. Now, I know what the
> 22 minutes means to you, but do you know what the 22 minutes mean to
> me?
>

Why would you not believe? It's an elegantly simple explanation for 
what's observed, and is entirely consistent with what we know about 
light. It seems bizarre in the extreme for you to want to believe that 
the cause is something else when we clearly understand what's happening.

You might as well believe in undetectable dragons.

Sylvia.

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Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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