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Re: My instantaneous point of view

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: My instantaneous point of view
Date 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
Message-ID <e27fviF87msU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <85c15dd2-d09d-462a-917d-0b4f29e0367e@googlegroups.com> <e1vg8gFa0fcU1@mid.individual.net> <bf990c63-ef37-4f6f-9399-ba8182b3bc3c@googlegroups.com> <e24givFgrcjU1@mid.individual.net> <50f14bd7-fb94-4047-bd08-18b26dc43678@googlegroups.com>

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On 25/08/2016 11:52 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 24/08/2016 1:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:18:12 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 22/08/2016 1:39 PM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John
>>>>>>> Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia
>>>>>>>> Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Earth, one second if one-way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the "largeness of the screen"(determined by
>>>>>>>>>>>> maximum visual acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but
>>>>>>>>>>> it was initially covered up. Then, when a laser
>>>>>>>>>>> pulse hits the retro-reflector, the large screen
>>>>>>>>>>> was uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness
>>>>>>>>>>> of the screen could be observed before the
>>>>>>>>>>> returning laser pulse reaches the Earth?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to
>>>>>>>>> observe the photons representing the largeness of the
>>>>>>>>> screen before the photons in the returning laser
>>>>>>>>> pulse, the former would have to travel faster than
>>>>>>>>> the latter. Why would they travel faster? How would
>>>>>>>>> they know that they should travel faster?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure
>>>>>>>> "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning
>>>>>>>> is traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why
>>>>>>>> the object is large as it is and what makes this
>>>>>>>> possible. Then you go right away to the screen of
>>>>>>>> photons. Don't do this. Instead, compare the image of
>>>>>>>> the screen- the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that
>>>>>>>> the satellite sends back.
>>>>>>> This is the only way you are going to spatially be able
>>>>>>> to tell a time difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like it or
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse to
>>>>> believe that the 22 minutes of the six month variation of
>>>>> occultation of the Jupiter's two main moons have anything to
>>>>> do with the speed of light. I believe the 22 minutes means
>>>>> something else. Now, I know what the 22 minutes means to you,
>>>>> but do you know what the 22 minutes mean to me?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why would you not believe? It's an elegantly simple
>>>> explanation for what's observed, and is entirely consistent
>>>> with what we know about light. It seems bizarre in the extreme
>>>> for you to want to believe that the cause is something else
>>>> when we clearly understand what's happening.
>>>>
>>>> You might as well believe in undetectable dragons.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> So, you are like one in the audience during a magicians
>>> performance and the magician is like nature. When the woman
>>> appears to be sawed in half- you believe the woman is really
>>> being sawed in half- right?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know how you get there. The fact that the apparently
>> sawn-in-half woman is still alive suggests that the
>> women-really-sawn-in-half model is flawed.
>>
>> As yet, there's nothing to suggest that the model of light is
>> flawed.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> My point is we can place screens far on Earth- like the one's in
> famous toothed-wheel experiments- placed on mountain tops to derive a
> measurable quantity which proves that screens can be observed BEFORE
> signals.
>

Well, it's your theory. You need to do the experiment. Given its 
conflict with the well established existing theory, no one else is going 
to do it.

Sylvia.

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Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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