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Re: My instantaneous point of view

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: My instantaneous point of view
Date 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
Message-ID <e24givFgrcjU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <3a9cb0fe-b2f8-4a3f-bf30-131c33dae0a6@googlegroups.com> <0462b7c6-2605-49a4-b2b2-5e702c536de6@googlegroups.com> <85c15dd2-d09d-462a-917d-0b4f29e0367e@googlegroups.com> <e1vg8gFa0fcU1@mid.individual.net> <bf990c63-ef37-4f6f-9399-ba8182b3bc3c@googlegroups.com>

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On 24/08/2016 1:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:18:12 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/08/2016 1:39 PM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5, John Gogo
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM UTC-5, Sylvia
>>>>>> Else wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM UTC-5, Sylvia
>>>>>>>> Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if go/come to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Earth, one second if one-way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the observation of the
>>>>>>>>>> "largeness of the screen"(determined by maximum
>>>>>>>>>> visual acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the Moon, but it
>>>>>>>>> was initially covered up. Then, when a laser pulse
>>>>>>>>> hits the retro-reflector, the large screen was
>>>>>>>>> uncovered. Do you maintain that the largeness of the
>>>>>>>>> screen could be observed before the returning laser
>>>>>>>>> pulse reaches the Earth?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you to observe
>>>>>>> the photons representing the largeness of the screen
>>>>>>> before the photons in the returning laser pulse, the
>>>>>>> former would have to travel faster than the latter. Why
>>>>>>> would they travel faster? How would they know that they
>>>>>>> should travel faster?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to measure
>>>>>> "photons" from which the very nature of its' meaning is
>>>>>> traveling. Don't think like this. Think about why the
>>>>>> object is large as it is and what makes this possible. Then
>>>>>> you go right away to the screen of photons. Don't do this.
>>>>>> Instead, compare the image of the screen- the 1,2,3 in
>>>>>> seconds vs. the signal that the satellite sends back.
>>>>> This is the only way you are going to spatially be able to
>>>>> tell a time difference.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like it or not.
>>>
>>> For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse to believe
>>> that the 22 minutes of the six month variation of occultation of
>>> the Jupiter's two main moons have anything to do with the speed
>>> of light. I believe the 22 minutes means something else. Now, I
>>> know what the 22 minutes means to you, but do you know what the
>>> 22 minutes mean to me?
>>>
>>
>> Why would you not believe? It's an elegantly simple explanation
>> for what's observed, and is entirely consistent with what we know
>> about light. It seems bizarre in the extreme for you to want to
>> believe that the cause is something else when we clearly understand
>> what's happening.
>>
>> You might as well believe in undetectable dragons.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> So, you are like one in the audience during a magicians performance
> and the magician is like nature. When the woman appears to be sawed
> in half- you believe the woman is really being sawed in half- right?
>

I don't know how you get there. The fact that the apparently 
sawn-in-half woman is still alive suggests that the 
women-really-sawn-in-half model is flawed.

As yet, there's nothing to suggest that the model of light is flawed.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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