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Re: My instantaneous point of view

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: My instantaneous point of view
Date 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
Message-ID <e29sa9Fpsv9U2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <50f14bd7-fb94-4047-bd08-18b26dc43678@googlegroups.com> <e27fviF87msU1@mid.individual.net> <ffe945da-5d8b-4f15-973b-3b2365f77054@googlegroups.com> <e29lktFogujU1@mid.individual.net> <137c47bf-ae45-4f1b-8d3b-ddfec5c59687@googlegroups.com>

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On 26/08/2016 12:06 PM, John Gogo wrote:
> On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 8:51:28 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 26/08/2016 8:29 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 1:02:30 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 25/08/2016 11:52 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/08/2016 1:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:18:12 AM UTC-5, Sylvia
>>>>>>> Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 1:39 PM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:30:11 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:22:05 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>>>> John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 9:17:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 11:42 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 8:31:12 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 9:41 AM, John Gogo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 9:40:09
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21/08/2016 6:17 AM, John Gogo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would take about two seconds if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go/come to Earth, one second if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one-way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, not instantaneous then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, not any signal. But, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation of the "largeness of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen"(determined by maximum visual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acuity) is instantaneous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose we had a large screen on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moon, but it was initially covered up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, when a laser pulse hits the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retro-reflector, the large screen was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uncovered. Do you maintain that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> largeness of the screen could be observed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before the returning laser pulse reaches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Earth?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this is what I have been trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your retina is sensitive to photons. For you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to observe the photons representing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> largeness of the screen before the photons in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the returning laser pulse, the former would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to travel faster than the latter. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would they travel faster? How would they know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they should travel faster?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are treating "retina" like a machine to
>>>>>>>>>>>> measure "photons" from which the very nature
>>>>>>>>>>>> of its' meaning is traveling. Don't think like
>>>>>>>>>>>> this. Think about why the object is large as it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is and what makes this possible. Then you go
>>>>>>>>>>>> right away to the screen of photons. Don't do
>>>>>>>>>>>> this. Instead, compare the image of the screen-
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1,2,3 in seconds vs. the signal that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> satellite sends back.
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the only way you are going to spatially
>>>>>>>>>>> be able to tell a time difference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm just giving you the facts here... you can like
>>>>>>>>>> it or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For instance, the Jupiter moon measure... I refuse
>>>>>>>>> to believe that the 22 minutes of the six month
>>>>>>>>> variation of occultation of the Jupiter's two main
>>>>>>>>> moons have anything to do with the speed of light. I
>>>>>>>>> believe the 22 minutes means something else. Now, I
>>>>>>>>> know what the 22 minutes means to you, but do you
>>>>>>>>> know what the 22 minutes mean to me?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would you not believe? It's an elegantly simple
>>>>>>>> explanation for what's observed, and is entirely
>>>>>>>> consistent with what we know about light. It seems
>>>>>>>> bizarre in the extreme for you to want to believe that
>>>>>>>> the cause is something else when we clearly understand
>>>>>>>> what's happening.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You might as well believe in undetectable dragons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you are like one in the audience during a magicians
>>>>>>> performance and the magician is like nature. When the
>>>>>>> woman appears to be sawed in half- you believe the woman
>>>>>>> is really being sawed in half- right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know how you get there. The fact that the
>>>>>> apparently sawn-in-half woman is still alive suggests that
>>>>>> the women-really-sawn-in-half model is flawed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As yet, there's nothing to suggest that the model of light
>>>>>> is flawed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is we can place screens far on Earth- like the one's
>>>>> in famous toothed-wheel experiments- placed on mountain tops
>>>>> to derive a measurable quantity which proves that screens can
>>>>> be observed BEFORE signals.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's your theory. You need to do the experiment. Given
>>>> its conflict with the well established existing theory, no one
>>>> else is going to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> The phenomenon occurs naturally. There is evidence out there like
>>> the 1950's naval experiments where sight triangulation occurred
>>> instantly and the radar "fell short". The main problem is how
>>> science interprets the results.
>>>
>>
>> Instead of providing vague references, which people cannot check,
>> why not provide links to official documents?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Official documents... maybe, I'm ahead of my time and I'm just
> waiting for people to wake up. It's very difficult to talk about a
> subject that nobody wants to talk about.
>

If there were 1950's naval experiments, you'd have to have become aware 
of them somehow. If there are no official documents to refer to, how do 
you know that it's not just something someone overheard in a pub?

Sylvia.

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Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:19 -0700
  Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:22 -0700
    Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-15 19:25 -0700
      Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-19 18:45 -0700
        Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-20 13:34 +1000
          Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 13:17 -0700
            Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-21 12:40 +1000
              Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 16:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 11:31 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 18:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 12:17 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 19:48 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 13:21 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 14:29 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:30 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 20:39 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-22 15:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 08:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-24 12:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 18:52 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-25 16:02 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 15:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 11:51 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:02 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:05 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 12:40 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:43 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:58 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-25 19:06 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-26 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:46 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 12:59 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 21:11 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 15:19 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 14:18 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 21:32 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 15:11 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 18:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:28 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 19:41 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:57 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 13:45 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 11:49 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 13:54 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:26 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 19:08 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-01 14:00 +1000
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 21:18 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:33 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 17:37 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-01 08:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 20:09 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-31 18:53 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:29 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:42 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 18:50 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 04:57 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 17:25 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:05 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 20:56 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-04 21:03 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 20:55 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 21:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-06 22:23 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view Jonathan Doolin <good4usoul@gmail.com> - 2016-09-07 06:45 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-21 23:21 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:12 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:19 -0700
                Re: My instantaneous point of view John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-23 16:22 -0700

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