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Re: H-1B Reform

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On 2/6/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-02-06 00:18, rickman wrote:
>> On 2/5/2017 10:23 AM, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 2017-02-04 22:52, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST),
>>>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f
>>>>>
>>>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2?
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Huh? How can a single engineer do the work of two on a consistent basis?
>>> The day has only 24h.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> That is very well said. And now more and more
>>>> US high tech companies will try to outsource
>>>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore
>>>> sites.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They'll do that anyhow and that's got nothing to do with H1B. Running a
>>> software outfit overseas is cheaper than paying for travel and housing
>>> of someone temporarily moved over here. The pay will also be much lower
>>> because the cost of daily life is much lower in many countries overseas.
>>> Also, there can't be import tariffs on it because their work results
>>> will flow across the borders on "singing wires".
>>>
>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way
>>> to fix H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration
>>> that understand it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't
>>> find an engineer for, not to obtain work results cheaper. The companies
>>> I worked for used H1B for exactly that intended purpose and they paid
>>> beaucoup bucks for those folks in salary.
>>
>> The required wage for H-1B workers has always been the prevailing wage.
>> But I seem to recall that most of the jobs being filled by this workers
>> have not been higher paying engineering jobs.  Still, enforcement has
>> been the hard and ineffective part.
>>
>
> Correct, because the bureaucrats who could have monitored this with ease
> were asleep at the wheel. That is now likely going to change and it should.

Yes, the cause of every problem is somnambulist civil servants.  Mostly 
likely the cause is lack of sufficient resources allocated by Congress. 
Trump and Congress can pass any law they want, but if they don't pony up 
the money to pay for enforcement....


> We need H1B and the law is already quite good as it is, always has been.
> The problem is a de-facto non-enforcement of the rules in this law. I
> have personally met people who were let go and then replaced by an H1B
> worker. This is wrong. So we need to get back to applying H1B the way it
> was always intended, obtaining talent which we truly cannot find in
> America or simply do not have enough of.

My cousin was one of those people.  He literally trained his 
replacement.  But he wouldn't report them.  In the end after six months 
or so they hired him back...  then laid him off again later on.  Then he 
came back as a contractor getting paid much more.  You have to work the 
system to your benefit.


>> Outsourcing has been tried for design work and it has often proved
>> ineffective.  The examples I have been witness to failed because of a
>> lack of communication where written requirements didn't fully capture
>> what was needed in a design and there were no design reviews involving
>> the US company.  The result was a product that met spec, but didn't
>> provide what was really needed.
>>
>
> True, and it can lead to the whole project being outsourced because then
> there are less disconnects. Or is can result in failure.

You mean disband the company and start again as an Indian start up?


>> I know when I have worked in companies producing products for a
>> competitive marketplace, there was *lots* of interaction between all the
>> departments involved.  It would have been very hard to produce a product
>> other than what was intended by the marketing group.
>>
>
> Marketing-driven businesses can be a problem though. I have seen some.
> Mostly because marketing folks often think too short term and most of
> all in a reaction-mode. "Oh, we just saw the competition has an XYZ
> wombombulator function so we absolutely need that by this coming trade
> show". I am quite glad to not be exposed to this all that much anymore.
> My current clients operate in true visionary mode.

"Marketing driven" is a term that means just what you want it to mean. 
A company needs marketing and if the engineering department fails to 
negotiate the requirements and/or fails to meet those requirements, then 
where are they?  Customers will buy what they want and if you don't give 
it to them, you won't be designing anything in the future.

-- 

Rick C

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Thread

H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
  Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
    Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
          Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
          Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
              Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
        Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
          Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
            Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
              Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
                Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
                Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
      Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
        Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
          Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
            Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800

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