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Re: Yay, faux meat!

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  Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-05 12:38 -0600
    Re: Yay, faux meat! Ed P <esp@snet.n> - 2026-07-05 15:08 -0400
      Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-05 13:23 -0600
        Re: Yay, faux meat! Ed P <esp@snet.n> - 2026-07-05 17:15 -0400
          Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-05 15:38 -0600
            Re: Yay, faux meat! Ed P <esp@snet.n> - 2026-07-05 18:33 -0400
              Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-05 22:30 -0600
              Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 08:59 -0600
            Re: Yay, faux meat! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 08:36 +1000
              Re: Yay, faux meat! Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-07-06 10:08 +1000
                Re: Yay, faux meat! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:09 +1000
                  Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-05 22:39 -0600
                    Re: Yay, faux meat! "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 16:48 +1000
                      Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 08:11 -0600
                        Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 08:46 -0600
                  Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 08:59 -0600
          Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 08:59 -0600
      Re: Yay, faux meat! squillage <yy@aba.et> - 2026-07-06 09:00 -0600
        Re: Yay, faux meat! Ed P <esp@snet.n> - 2026-07-06 11:57 -0400
          Re: Yay, faux meat! sid croft <andz@mar.ty> - 2026-07-07 02:04 -0600

#2060 — Re: Yay, faux meat!

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same, the
> shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so, displacement is
> changed and reduced.

No, changing shape does nto alter volume.

You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.

Bad play.

"AI Overview                 

No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
volume. 
Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider, thinner
shape. 

The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
covers more surface area."

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#2061

On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> 
>> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same, the
>> shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so, displacement is
>> changed and reduced.
> 
> No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
> 
> You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
> 
> Bad play.
> 
> "AI Overview
> 
> No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
> volume.
> Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
> occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider, thinner
> shape.
> 
> The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
> covers more surface area."
> 

While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression.  That 
changes displacement.   Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same 
volume.

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#2062

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
> > Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >   
> >> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same, the
> >> shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so, displacement is
> >> changed and reduced.  
> > 
> > No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
> > 
> > You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
> > 
> > Bad play.
> > 
> > "AI Overview
> > 
> > No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
> > volume.
> > Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
> > occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider,
> > thinner shape.
> > 
> > The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
> > covers more surface area."
> >   
> 
> While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression. 

What do you think "flattening" is?

> That 
> changes displacement. 

No it doesn't.

> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same volume.

Bread is heavily composed of air.

AI Overview                 

"No, a flattened loaf does not have
the same volume. Because bread is a porous, air-filled structure,
flattening it compresses the gas pockets, which reduces its overall
volume and makes it denser."


Meat is not an "air-filled structure", now is it?

No gas pockets either.

Are you a total idiot, or just playing one here?

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#2064

On 7/5/2026 3:23 PM, squillage wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
>>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
>>>    
>>>> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same, the
>>>> shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so, displacement is
>>>> changed and reduced.
>>>
>>> No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
>>>
>>> You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
>>>
>>> Bad play.
>>>
>>> "AI Overview
>>>
>>> No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
>>> volume.
>>> Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
>>> occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider,
>>> thinner shape.
>>>
>>> The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
>>> covers more surface area."
>>>    
>>
>> While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression.
> 
> What do you think "flattening" is?
> 
>> That
>> changes displacement.
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
>> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same volume.
> 
> Bread is heavily composed of air.
> 
> AI Overview
> 
> "No, a flattened loaf does not have
> the same volume. Because bread is a porous, air-filled structure,
> flattening it compresses the gas pockets, which reduces its overall
> volume and makes it denser."
> 
> 
> Meat is not an "air-filled structure", now is it?
> 
> No gas pockets either.
> 
> Are you a total idiot, or just playing one here?
> 

I guess you never had a physics course
AI Overview:
Yes, meat is fundamentally a cellular food. Meat consists of muscle 
fibers, fat cells, and connective tissues, which are all composed of 
animal cells.Conventional Meat: Derived from the muscles and tissues of 
animals, which are complex structures of cells.Cultivated (Lab-Grown) 
Meat: A form of "cellular agriculture" where meat is produced by 
cultivating animal cells directly in a controlled environment, such as a 
bioreactor. These cells are then harvested and, in some cases, grown on 
edible scaffolding to mimic the structure of conventional muscle tissues

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#2065

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 17:15:26 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> On 7/5/2026 3:23 PM, squillage wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
> > Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:  
> >>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
> >>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same,
> >>>> the shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so,
> >>>> displacement is changed and reduced.  
> >>>
> >>> No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
> >>>
> >>> You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
> >>>
> >>> Bad play.
> >>>
> >>> "AI Overview
> >>>
> >>> No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
> >>> volume.
> >>> Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
> >>> occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider,
> >>> thinner shape.
> >>>
> >>> The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
> >>> covers more surface area."
> >>>      
> >>
> >> While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression.  
> > 
> > What do you think "flattening" is?
> >   
> >> That
> >> changes displacement.  
> > 
> > No it doesn't.
> >   
> >> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same volume.  
> > 
> > Bread is heavily composed of air.
> > 
> > AI Overview
> > 
> > "No, a flattened loaf does not have
> > the same volume. Because bread is a porous, air-filled structure,
> > flattening it compresses the gas pockets, which reduces its overall
> > volume and makes it denser."
> > 
> > 
> > Meat is not an "air-filled structure", now is it?
> > 
> > No gas pockets either.
> > 
> > Are you a total idiot, or just playing one here?
> >   
> 
> I guess you never had a physics course
> AI Overview:
> Yes, meat is fundamentally a cellular food. Meat consists of muscle 
> fibers, fat cells, and connective tissues, which are all composed of 
> animal cells.Conventional Meat: Derived from the muscles and tissues
> of animals, which are complex structures of cells.Cultivated
> (Lab-Grown) Meat: A form of "cellular agriculture" where meat is
> produced by cultivating animal cells directly in a controlled
> environment, such as a bioreactor. These cells are then harvested
> and, in some cases, grown on edible scaffolding to mimic the
> structure of conventional muscle tissues

Air = missing.

Gas= missing.

Your brain = missing.

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#2066

On 7/5/2026 5:38 PM, squillage wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 17:15:26 -0400
> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/5/2026 3:23 PM, squillage wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
>>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
>>>    
>>>> On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
>>>>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
>>>>>       
>>>>>> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same,
>>>>>> the shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so,
>>>>>> displacement is changed and reduced.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bad play.
>>>>>
>>>>> "AI Overview
>>>>>
>>>>> No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
>>>>> volume.
>>>>> Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
>>>>> occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider,
>>>>> thinner shape.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
>>>>> covers more surface area."
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>>> While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression.
>>>
>>> What do you think "flattening" is?
>>>    
>>>> That
>>>> changes displacement.
>>>
>>> No it doesn't.
>>>    
>>>> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same volume.
>>>
>>> Bread is heavily composed of air.
>>>
>>> AI Overview
>>>
>>> "No, a flattened loaf does not have
>>> the same volume. Because bread is a porous, air-filled structure,
>>> flattening it compresses the gas pockets, which reduces its overall
>>> volume and makes it denser."
>>>
>>>
>>> Meat is not an "air-filled structure", now is it?
>>>
>>> No gas pockets either.
>>>
>>> Are you a total idiot, or just playing one here?
>>>    
>>
>> I guess you never had a physics course
>> AI Overview:
>> Yes, meat is fundamentally a cellular food. Meat consists of muscle
>> fibers, fat cells, and connective tissues, which are all composed of
>> animal cells.Conventional Meat: Derived from the muscles and tissues
>> of animals, which are complex structures of cells.Cultivated
>> (Lab-Grown) Meat: A form of "cellular agriculture" where meat is
>> produced by cultivating animal cells directly in a controlled
>> environment, such as a bioreactor. These cells are then harvested
>> and, in some cases, grown on edible scaffolding to mimic the
>> structure of conventional muscle tissues
> 
> Air = missing.
> 
> Gas= missing.
> 
> Your brain = missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
Your education = missing

  at a macroscopic level, it acts like a compressible sponge because it 
contains pockets of trapped air and distinct structural fibers.


The Sponge Effect: Although the fluid inside cannot be compressed, it is 
stored within a network of protein chains, fat, and connective tissue. 
This matrix contains microscopic air pockets. When you apply pressure 
(like resting a heavy cast-iron skillet on a steak or vacuum-sealing 
it), you compress these air pockets, reshaping the meat and forcing out 
the juices

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#2070

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 18:33:28 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> On 7/5/2026 5:38 PM, squillage wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 17:15:26 -0400
> > Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 7/5/2026 3:23 PM, squillage wrote:  
> >>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
> >>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> On 7/5/2026 2:38 PM, squillage wrote:  
> >>>>> On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 11:11:47 -0400
> >>>>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
> >>>>>         
> >>>>>> You are making assumptions.  Yes, the weight remains the same,
> >>>>>> the shape will change, but, does it compress?  If so,
> >>>>>> displacement is changed and reduced.  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No, changing shape does nto alter volume.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You are denying fully vetted and accepted reality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bad play.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "AI Overview
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No, pounding meat out does not reduce its
> >>>>> volume.
> >>>>> Because volume is the measure of the actual space the meat
> >>>>> occupies, flattening it simply displaces the mass into a wider,
> >>>>> thinner shape.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The meat remains the same weight, density, and volume—it just
> >>>>> covers more surface area."
> >>>>>         
> >>>>
> >>>> While that is mostly true, there is no mention of compression.  
> >>>
> >>> What do you think "flattening" is?
> >>>      
> >>>> That
> >>>> changes displacement.  
> >>>
> >>> No it doesn't.
> >>>      
> >>>> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same volume.  
> >>>
> >>> Bread is heavily composed of air.
> >>>
> >>> AI Overview
> >>>
> >>> "No, a flattened loaf does not have
> >>> the same volume. Because bread is a porous, air-filled structure,
> >>> flattening it compresses the gas pockets, which reduces its
> >>> overall volume and makes it denser."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Meat is not an "air-filled structure", now is it?
> >>>
> >>> No gas pockets either.
> >>>
> >>> Are you a total idiot, or just playing one here?
> >>>      
> >>
> >> I guess you never had a physics course
> >> AI Overview:
> >> Yes, meat is fundamentally a cellular food. Meat consists of muscle
> >> fibers, fat cells, and connective tissues, which are all composed
> >> of animal cells.Conventional Meat: Derived from the muscles and
> >> tissues of animals, which are complex structures of
> >> cells.Cultivated (Lab-Grown) Meat: A form of "cellular
> >> agriculture" where meat is produced by cultivating animal cells
> >> directly in a controlled environment, such as a bioreactor. These
> >> cells are then harvested and, in some cases, grown on edible
> >> scaffolding to mimic the structure of conventional muscle tissues  
> > 
> > Air = missing.
> > 
> > Gas= missing.
> > 
> > Your brain = missing.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> Your education = missing
> 
>   at a macroscopic level, it acts like a compressible sponge because
> it contains pockets of trapped air and distinct structural fibers.

All retained intact, not liberated of gas or air.


> The Sponge Effect: Although the fluid inside cannot be compressed, it
> is stored within a network of protein chains, fat, and connective
> tissue. This matrix contains microscopic air pockets. When you apply
> pressure (like resting a heavy cast-iron skillet on a steak or
> vacuum-sealing it), you compress these air pockets, reshaping the
> meat and forcing out the juices

Oddly this simply does NOT happen.

Go argue with AI, dolthead:

AI Overview                 

Pounding meat does not inherently make it
lose its internal moisture. 

In fact, by breaking down tough muscle
fibers and flattening the meat to ensure it cooks evenly, it actually
helps the meat stay much juicier by preventing the edges from
overcooking while the thicker parts finish.

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#2076

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 18:33:28 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> at a macroscopic level, it acts like a compressible sponge because it 
> contains pockets of trapped air and distinct structural fibers.
Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

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#2067

squillage <yy@aba.et> wrote
> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote

You are both ignoring this crucial bit

"AI Overview

The
Real Cause of Moisture LossIn most cases, the moisture you lose (which
can average 15% to 25% of the meat's weight) happens during the cooking
process itself, not from the mallet.

and that's what matter given we are discussing what
happens when you COOK it because there is no point
in pounding it with a meat hammer if you don't cook it

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#2068

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 08:36:49 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>squillage <yy@aba.et> wrote
>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote
>
>You are both ignoring this crucial bit
>
>"AI Overview
>
>The
>Real Cause of Moisture LossIn most cases, the moisture you lose (which
>can average 15% to 25% of the meat's weight) happens during the cooking
>process itself, not from the mallet.

Evidently, when the meat hits a very-hot pan, the meat's surface is
seared into an impervious layer, so locking in moisture.
>
>and that's what matter given we are discussing what
>happens when you COOK it because there is no point
>in pounding it with a meat hammer if you don't cook it

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#2069

Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> squillage <yy@aba.et> wrote
>>> Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote

>> You are both ignoring this crucial bit

>> "AI Overview

>> The
>> Real Cause of Moisture LossIn most cases, the moisture you lose (which
>> can average 15% to 25% of the meat's weight) happens during the cooking
>> process itself, not from the mallet.

> Evidently, when the meat hits a very-hot pan, the meat's surfaceis    
> seared into an impervious layer, so locking in moisture.

Irrelevant to the real reduction in volume

>> and that's what matter given we are discussing what
>> happens when you COOK it because there is no point
>> in pounding it with a meat hammer if you don't cook it

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#2071

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 12:09:13 +1000
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Irrelevant to the real reduction in volume

None noted:

AI Overview                 

Pounding meat does not inherently make it
lose its internal moisture. 

In fact, by breaking down tough muscle
fibers and flattening the meat to ensure it cooks evenly, it actually
helps the meat stay much juicier by preventing the edges from
overcooking while the thicker parts finish.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2072

squillage <yy@aba.et> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> Irrelevant to the real reduction in volume

> None noted:

> AI Overview

> Pounding meat does not inherently make it
> lose its internal moisture.

> In fact, by breaking down tough muscle
> fibers and flattening the meat to ensure it cooks evenly, it actually
> helps the meat stay much juicier by preventing the edges from
> overcooking while the thicker parts finish.

Pity about the bit of that overview you carefully
and flagrantly dishonestly deleted which says

The
Real Cause of Moisture LossIn most cases, the moisture you lose (which
can average 15% to 25% of the meat's weight) happens during the cooking
process itself, not from the mallet.

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#2073

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 16:48:35 +1000
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pity about the bit of that overview you carefully
> and flagrantly dishonestly deleted which says

I still have some rod speed shite on my heel, tsk...

Q; Does pounding meat out change its volume?

AI: "No, pounding meat out does not
change its volume. It only changes its shape."

Key Facts About Pounding
Meat

Constant Density: 
Meat is made mostly of water, which does not
compress easily under physical force.

Geometric Shift: Pounding reduces
the thickness of the meat while increasing its surface area.

Structural
Break: 

The process breaks down tough muscle fibers and connective
tissues to make meat tender."

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#2074

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 08:11:25 -0600
squillage <yy@aba.et> wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 16:48:35 +1000
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Pity about the bit of that overview you carefully
> > and flagrantly dishonestly deleted which says  
> 
> I still have some rod speed shite on my heel, tsk...
> 
> Q; Does pounding meat out change its volume?
> 
> AI: "No, pounding meat out does not
> change its volume. It only changes its shape."
> 
> Key Facts About Pounding
> Meat
> 
> Constant Density: 
> Meat is made mostly of water, which does not
> compress easily under physical force.
> 
> Geometric Shift: Pounding reduces
> the thickness of the meat while increasing its surface area.
> 
> Structural
> Break: 
> 
> The process breaks down tough muscle fibers and connective
> tissues to make meat tender."
> 

Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2075

On Mon, 06 Jul 2026 12:09:13 +1000
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Irrelevant to the real reduction in volume
Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2077

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 17:15:26 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> I guess you never had a physics course
Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2078

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:08:45 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> Pound a loaf of bread and see if it is the same 
> volume.

Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079

On 7/6/2026 11:00 AM, squillage wrote:

> 
> So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
> little, if at all."
> 
> 
How many times are you going to repeat that?  Change is change, even if 
only a little.

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#2080

On Mon, 6 Jul 2026 11:57:02 -0400
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

> On 7/6/2026 11:00 AM, squillage wrote:
> 
> > 
> > So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
> > little, if at all."
> > 
> >   
> How many times are you going to repeat that? 


Perplexity AI:


"In practical cooking terms, pounding mainly increases surface area and
evens out thickness, which helps it cook more evenly and faster. That’s
why it’s useful for chicken cutlets, schnitzel, and similar dishes.

So the simple answer is: shape changes a lot, volume changes only a
little, if at all."

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

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