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Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera

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Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: 
 --> 	 11 Jul 2014 18:29:04 GMT <c2aongFjnrvU1@mid.individual.net>
> On 2014-07-11, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like: 
>>  --> 	 11 Jul 2014 14:01:12 GMT <c2a918Fg964U2@mid.individual.net>
>>> You clearly haven't worked for very many businesses, then. Most large
>>> corporations, for instance, would never dream of making internal
>>> security cameras accessible from the WAN. There are quite a lot of use
>>> cases for network cameras that explicitly prohibit connection to the
>>> internet. And, in case you didn't pay attention, what I said was, "if
>>> connecting them to the WAN is a requirement for full network camera
>>> functionality that you get with other network cameras, that would
>>> certainly be a deal breaker for me". Parse those words carefully.
>>
>> I did, and what you said made no sense to me. A network camera, for me,
>> is *by definition* one that is connected to the WAN so I can access it
>> remotely.

> Again, your use case does not apply to everyone. The fact is many do
> *not* want security cameras accessible by WAN traffic.

Right. Of course they don't and there are Non-network cameras for that.
That isn't the question, the question is why you would want a network
camera that doesn't connect to the Internet.

>> Saying you want a network camera that doesn't have to be
>> connected to a WAN is like saying you'd like to buy a router that
>> doesn't connect to a WAN.

> No, that's a bad analogy. 

>> I suppose, maybe, there's some edge case where
>> you would want a router for your LAN and not have the ability to connect
>> to the Internet, but I can't really think of one.

> That's because it's not a good analogy.

>> I would not call a camera that cannot connect to the WAN (or can, but is
>> not) a "network" camera; I'd call it a camera, or perhaps a closed-
>> circuit camera.

> No, you just seem to be unable or unwilling to distinguish between LAN
> and WAN. Pretty silly.

I perfectly understand the difference between LAN and WAN. Thanks.

>>> What I meant by that is if standard functionality requires the device
>>> to be connected to the WAN, I want no part of it. For instance, the
>>> ability to take and retrieve pictures from the camera should not
>>> require a WAN connection. Obviously internet features, such as
>>> uploading to a remote web server, would require WAN connectivity; but
>>> I'm talking about basic features of the device.
>>
>> I'd say taking pictures and putting them somewhere you can see one is
>> the most basic feature of a camera.

> Not sure exactly what you are trying to convey here, but it changes
> nothing in my statement above.

>>> No such standard features should require the device to be connected to
>>> the WAN. Otherwise, I want no part of it.  Certain features of the
>>> Nest are disabled without a WAN connection, for instance; and there is
>>> no option AFAIK to connect the Nest instead to a server in your own
>>> LAN. That means for me to be able to use those features, I have to
>>> allow Google to track my usage.
>>
>> Granted, that makes your Nest work better because it allows it to learn
>> and improve its schedule. "Heat is on" and "AC is on" is not exactly
>> private data. Anyone can tell those things by looking at my house.

> You haven't changed the fact that such data does not have to be
> transmitted to a remote server to be useful. They could instead be
> transmitted to a computer in the LAN and that information could be
> conveyed without any WAN connectivity. 

And as I said, from the products available it seems the vast majority of
consumers want a camera they can use to monitor their home remotely.
Being able to sit in the computer room and see the kitchen isn't all
that compelling.

> If *you* are willing to share your personal data with Google, that's on
> you. I refuse to purchase a product that is less useful without a WAN
> connection.

See? You did it again. You seem to be saying that WAN = Google.

>>> That's a deal breaker for me. I require full control over my devices;
>>> and they shouldn't be crippled without a WAN connection. 
>>
>> You seem to be using WAN connection for "I don't want to connect to
>> Google" and not "I don't want to connect to the Internet (WAN)." You
>> can't put photos on the Internet without connecting to the Internet,
>> it's just not possible.

> No, you seem to be unable or unwilling to distinguish between a local
> network (LAN) and the internet (WAN). Some people do not want their
> devices accessible by strangers. You can refuse to accept this, or
> discount it, but it remains a fact.

WAN does not mean "accessible by strangers" My Transporter is on the
Internet and is not accessible by strangers. In fact, many things are
connected to the Internet and are not accessible by strangers, the
Internet wouldn't work if this wasn't true.

-- 
"If I only had a little humility, I'd be perfect."

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OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-07-09 19:44 -0400
  Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-07-09 17:29 -0700
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 01:06 +0000
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-07-09 21:56 -0400
  Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 01:05 +0000
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-10 02:55 +0000
  Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-07-09 19:18 -0700
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 05:09 +0000
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-07-09 22:18 -0700
      Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-07-09 22:30 -0700
        Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-07-10 09:13 -0400
          Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-07-11 08:36 +1000
            Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-07-10 20:24 -0400
              Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-11 00:46 +0000
              Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-07-11 16:29 +1000
  Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera M-M <nospam@ny.more> - 2014-07-10 01:08 -0400
    Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 05:31 +0000
      Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera M-M <nospam@ny.more> - 2014-07-10 01:49 -0400
        Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 14:28 +0000
      Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-10 07:31 +0000
        Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-10 14:50 +0000
          Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-11 07:20 +0000
            Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-11 14:01 +0000
              Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-11 18:04 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-11 18:29 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-12 15:03 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-12 15:48 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-07-12 10:58 -0700
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-12 18:16 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-07-13 07:42 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-07-13 08:17 -0700
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-07-13 16:22 -0400
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-13 15:22 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-13 15:26 +0000
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-07-13 08:37 -0700
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-07-13 11:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Looking for Remote WiFi Time-Lapse Camera JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-07-12 14:44 -0400

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