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Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute

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"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>
>> On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>> >>
>> >> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote:
>> >>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you
>> >>>>>>>>>>> distribute:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my 
>> >>>>>>>>>> software,
>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>> >>>>>>>>>> rm *
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>> >>>>>>>>>> rm -rf *
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> (careful!)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows equivalents 
>> >>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>> doing
>> >>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a
>> >>>>>>>>>> picture of
>> >>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who get 
>> >>>>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>> right).
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is different.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation 
>> >>>>>>>>>> program,
>> >>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And 
>> >>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>> >>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most elementary 
>> >>>>>>>>> cases on
>> >>>>>>>>> Windows?  A new program with a new data file. You want to click 
>> >>>>>>>>> on the
>> >>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that without 
>> >>>>>>>>> changing
>> >>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS?  To me, that is SOP and not rare at 
>> >>>>>>>>> all.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that association. 
>> >>>>>>>> The user
>> >>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better
>> >>>>>>>> choose a
>> >>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and that's 
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have to 
>> >>>>>>> remote-
>> >>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that _should_ 
>> >>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>> been set up by the installer.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File 
>> >>>>>> associations
>> >>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise - 
>> >>>>>> i.e.
>> >>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes of a 
>> >>>>>> PDF
>> >>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a
>> >>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a screen
>> >>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program had 
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the 
>> >>>>>> screen
>> >>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/ program, 
>> >>>>>> rather
>> >>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they were 
>> >>>>>> never
>> >>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS used 
>> >>>>>> file
>> >>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a 
>> >>>>>> file
>> >>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a
>> >>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has 
>> >>>>>> done
>> >>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file 
>> >>>>>> associations
>> >>>>>> cause.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I probably agree with all that.  But it's a bit like complaining 
>> >>>>> about
>> >>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language.  For the most 
>> >>>>> part,
>> >>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be a 
>> >>>> way to
>> >>>> remove it, also in the program spec.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for no 
>> >>>> benefit.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file 
>> >>>> associations.
>> >>>
>> >>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are 
>> >>> needed
>> >>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum
>> >>> necessary to meet the spec?
>> >>
>> >> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until
>> >> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the 
>> >> last one.
>> >>
>> >> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it?
>> >
>> > In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired to 
>> > the
>> > systems analyst role.
>>
>> And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions.
>
> You expect someone else to do the design and when it comes acropper you
> point the finger at them instead of yourself, so it is difficult to draw
> any other conclusion.

That's not what he said at all - he said he wanted someone else to write the 
specification. 

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Thread

To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700

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