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Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute

From Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Newsgroups comp.programming
Subject Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute
Date 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
Organization Origin Sonata
Message-ID <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <dvk6nsF3h1qU1@mid.individual.net> <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.31feb5dcda84a9af98a3b4@news.eternal-september.org> <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fec1f19d0b833198a3b5@news.eternal-september.org>

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On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>
>> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>>>
>>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote:
>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you
>>>>>>>>>>> distribute:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my software,
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>>>>>>>>>> rm *
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>>>>>>>>>> rm -rf *
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (careful!)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows equivalents of
>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a
>>>>>>>>>> picture of
>>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who get this
>>>>>>>>>> right).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in the
>>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is different.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation program,
>>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most elementary cases on
>>>>>>>>> Windows?  A new program with a new data file. You want to click on the
>>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that without changing
>>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS?  To me, that is SOP and not rare at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that association. The user
>>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better
>>>>>>>> choose a
>>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and that's the
>>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have to remote-
>>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that _should_ have
>>>>>>> been set up by the installer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File associations
>>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise - i.e.
>>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes of a PDF
>>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a
>>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a screen
>>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program had to
>>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the screen
>>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/ program, rather
>>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they were never
>>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS used file
>>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a file
>>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a
>>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has done
>>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file associations
>>>>>> cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> I probably agree with all that.  But it's a bit like complaining about
>>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language.  For the most part,
>>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions.
>>>>
>>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be a way to
>>>> remove it, also in the program spec.
>>>>
>>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for no benefit.
>>>>
>>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file associations.
>>>
>>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are needed
>>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum
>>> necessary to meet the spec?
>>
>> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until
>> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the last one.
>>
>> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it?
>
> In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired to the
> systems analyst role.

And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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Thread

To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700

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