Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute

From	Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.programming
Subject	Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute
Date	2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
Organization	Origin Sonata
Message-ID	<nn38ib$omn$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fec1f19d0b833198a3b5@news.eternal-september.org> <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org> <dvkk6aF6prjU1@mid.individual.net>

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On 24/07/16 20:45, Osmium wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>>
>>> On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> > In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>> >>
>>> >> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote:
>>> >>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says...
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> distribute:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my
>>> >>>>>>>>>> software,
>>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>>> >>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>>> >>>>>>>>>> rm *
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it
>>> >>>>>>>>>> rm -rf *
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> (careful!)
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows
>>> equivalents >>>>>>>>>> of
>>> >>>>>>>>>> doing
>>> >>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a
>>> >>>>>>>>>> picture of
>>> >>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who
>>> get >>>>>>>>>> this
>>> >>>>>>>>>> right).
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is
>>> different.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation
>>> >>>>>>>>>> program,
>>> >>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And
>>> >>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>> >>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.)
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most
>>> elementary >>>>>>>>> cases on
>>> >>>>>>>>> Windows?  A new program with a new data file. You want to
>>> click >>>>>>>>> on the
>>> >>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that
>>> without >>>>>>>>> changing
>>> >>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS?  To me, that is SOP and not rare
>>> at >>>>>>>>> all.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that
>>> association. >>>>>>>> The user
>>> >>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better
>>> >>>>>>>> choose a
>>> >>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and
>>> that's >>>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have
>>> to >>>>>>> remote-
>>> >>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that
>>> _should_ >>>>>>> have
>>> >>>>>>> been set up by the installer.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File >>>>>>
>>> associations
>>> >>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise -
>>> >>>>>> i.e.
>>> >>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes
>>> of a >>>>>> PDF
>>> >>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a
>>> >>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a
>>> screen
>>> >>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program
>>> had >>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the
>>> >>>>>> screen
>>> >>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/
>>> program, >>>>>> rather
>>> >>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they
>>> were >>>>>> never
>>> >>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS
>>> used >>>>>> file
>>> >>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a
>>> >>>>>> file
>>> >>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a
>>> >>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has
>>> >>>>>> done
>>> >>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file >>>>>>
>>> associations
>>> >>>>>> cause.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I probably agree with all that.  But it's a bit like
>>> complaining >>>>> about
>>> >>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language.  For the
>>> most >>>>> part,
>>> >>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be
>>> a >>>> way to
>>> >>>> remove it, also in the program spec.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for
>>> no >>>> benefit.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file >>>>
>>> associations.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are
>>> >>> needed
>>> >>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum
>>> >>> necessary to meet the spec?
>>> >>
>>> >> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until
>>> >> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the
>>> >> last one.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it?
>>> >
>>> > In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired
>>> to > the
>>> > systems analyst role.
>>>
>>> And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions.
>>
>> You expect someone else to do the design and when it comes acropper you
>> point the finger at them instead of yourself, so it is difficult to draw
>> any other conclusion.
>
> That's not what he said at all - he said he wanted someone else to write
> the specification.

I didn't even say /that/.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Thread

To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
        Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
            Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
              Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
                Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
          Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
      Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
    Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
  Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700

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