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Groups > comp.programming > #6799
| From | "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.programming |
| Subject | Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute |
| Date | 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <dvkk6aF6prjU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <MPG.31feb5dcda84a9af98a3b4@news.eternal-september.org> <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fec1f19d0b833198a3b5@news.eternal-september.org> <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org> |
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org... > In article <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >> >> On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote: >> > In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >> >> >> >> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote: >> >>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >> >>>> >> >>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote: >> >>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote: >> >>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you >> >>>>>>>>>>> distribute: >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my >> >>>>>>>>>> software, >> >>>>>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >> >>>>>>>>>> rm * >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so: >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >> >>>>>>>>>> rm -rf * >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (careful!) >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows equivalents >> >>>>>>>>>> of >> >>>>>>>>>> doing >> >>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a >> >>>>>>>>>> picture of >> >>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who get >> >>>>>>>>>> this >> >>>>>>>>>> right). >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in the >> >>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is different. >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation >> >>>>>>>>>> program, >> >>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And >> >>>>>>>>>> sometimes >> >>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.) >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most elementary >> >>>>>>>>> cases on >> >>>>>>>>> Windows? A new program with a new data file. You want to click >> >>>>>>>>> on the >> >>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that without >> >>>>>>>>> changing >> >>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS? To me, that is SOP and not rare at >> >>>>>>>>> all. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that association. >> >>>>>>>> The user >> >>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better >> >>>>>>>> choose a >> >>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and that's >> >>>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have to >> >>>>>>> remote- >> >>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that _should_ >> >>>>>>> have >> >>>>>>> been set up by the installer. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File >> >>>>>> associations >> >>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise - >> >>>>>> i.e. >> >>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes of a >> >>>>>> PDF >> >>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a >> >>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a screen >> >>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program had >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the >> >>>>>> screen >> >>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/ program, >> >>>>>> rather >> >>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they were >> >>>>>> never >> >>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS used >> >>>>>> file >> >>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a >> >>>>>> file >> >>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a >> >>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has >> >>>>>> done >> >>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file >> >>>>>> associations >> >>>>>> cause. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I probably agree with all that. But it's a bit like complaining >> >>>>> about >> >>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language. For the most >> >>>>> part, >> >>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions. >> >>>> >> >>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be a >> >>>> way to >> >>>> remove it, also in the program spec. >> >>>> >> >>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for no >> >>>> benefit. >> >>>> >> >>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file >> >>>> associations. >> >>> >> >>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are >> >>> needed >> >>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum >> >>> necessary to meet the spec? >> >> >> >> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until >> >> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the >> >> last one. >> >> >> >> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it? >> > >> > In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired to >> > the >> > systems analyst role. >> >> And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions. > > You expect someone else to do the design and when it comes acropper you > point the finger at them instead of yourself, so it is difficult to draw > any other conclusion. That's not what he said at all - he said he wanted someone else to write the specification.
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To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700
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