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Groups > comp.programming > #6804
| From | Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.programming |
| Subject | Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute |
| Date | 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100 |
| Organization | Origin Sonata |
| Message-ID | <nn3gu0$m3l$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (11 earlier) <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org> <dvkk6aF6prjU1@mid.individual.net> <nn38ib$omn$2@dont-email.me> <MPG.31ff06051782921298a3bc@news.eternal-september.org> |
On 24/07/16 23:06, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <nn38ib$omn$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >> >> On 24/07/16 20:45, Osmium wrote: >>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> In article <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>> >>>>> On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>> In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribute: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> software, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rm * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rm -rf * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (careful!) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows >>>>> equivalents >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> picture of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who >>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is >>>>> different. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most >>>>> elementary >>>>>>>>> cases on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows? A new program with a new data file. You want to >>>>> click >>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that >>>>> without >>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS? To me, that is SOP and not rare >>>>> at >>>>>>>>> all. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that >>>>> association. >>>>>>>> The user >>>>>>>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better >>>>>>>>>>>>> choose a >>>>>>>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and >>>>> that's >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have >>>>> to >>>>>>> remote- >>>>>>>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that >>>>> _should_ >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> been set up by the installer. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File >>>>>> >>>>> associations >>>>>>>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise - >>>>>>>>>>> i.e. >>>>>>>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes >>>>> of a >>>>>> PDF >>>>>>>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a >>>>>>>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a >>>>> screen >>>>>>>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program >>>>> had >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the >>>>>>>>>>> screen >>>>>>>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/ >>>>> program, >>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they >>>>> were >>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS >>>>> used >>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a >>>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a >>>>>>>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has >>>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file >>>>>> >>>>> associations >>>>>>>>>>> cause. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I probably agree with all that. But it's a bit like >>>>> complaining >>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language. For the >>>>> most >>>>> part, >>>>>>>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be >>>>> a >>>> way to >>>>>>>>> remove it, also in the program spec. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for >>>>> no >>>> benefit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file >>>> >>>>> associations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are >>>>>>>> needed >>>>>>>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum >>>>>>>> necessary to meet the spec? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until >>>>>>> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the >>>>>>> last one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it? >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired >>>>> to > the >>>>>> systems analyst role. >>>>> >>>>> And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions. >>>> >>>> You expect someone else to do the design and when it comes acropper you >>>> point the finger at them instead of yourself, so it is difficult to draw >>>> any other conclusion. >>> >>> That's not what he said at all - he said he wanted someone else to write >>> the specification. >> >> I didn't even say /that/. > > Your argument seems to be that you code to the specification Yes. Your argument seems to be that you think it's a stupid idea to observe the program specification. Interesting. > and that the specification is not your responsibility. Whether the specification is my responsibility depends on whether I wrote the specification. Sometimes I write the program spec, and sometimes I don't. That's par for the course, surely? -- Richard Heathfield Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999 Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
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To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700
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