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Groups > comp.programming > #6803
| From | Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.programming |
| Subject | Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute |
| Date | 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100 |
| Organization | Origin Sonata |
| Message-ID | <nn3gie$kp0$3@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <MPG.31fec1f19d0b833198a3b5@news.eternal-september.org> <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org> <dvkk6aF6prjU1@mid.individual.net> <MPG.31ff058632dcb41c98a3bb@news.eternal-september.org> |
On 24/07/16 23:04, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <dvkk6aF6prjU1@mid.individual.net>, r124c4u102@comcast.net > says... >> >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:MPG.31fedcfe5aa7cb6298a3b8@news.eternal-september.org... >>> In article <nn2vbj$o1h$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>> >>>> On 24/07/16 18:16, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>> In article <nn2qsj$8er$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24/07/16 17:24, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>> In article <nn2p5s$2j1$1@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:55, Osmium wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:34, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article <nn2m7t$o38$2@dont-email.me>, rjh@cpax.org.uk says... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/07/16 16:00, Osmium wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Richard Heathfield" wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/07/16 23:13, Wally W. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To all who write uninstallation programs for software you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribute: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever possible, I prefer not to do this. To delete my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> software, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just delete it, and you're done. Either >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rm * >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or maybe, just maybe, there are sub-directories, so: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cd where/did/you/put/it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rm -rf * >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (careful!) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or, if you're on Windows, one of the many Windows equivalents >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same thing (such as dragging a pretty yellow box onto a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> picture of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a dustbin - alas, I can't promise sweeties to those who get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> right). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If your uninstallation program can't leave the machine in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condition you found it, then tell the user what is different. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hear, hear! But if your program /needs/ an uninstallation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> program, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there had better be an extraordinarily good reason. (And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is. But it's rarer than many people think.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I long for the good old days too. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But doesn't your approach fail in one of the most elementary >>>>>>>>>>>>> cases on >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows? A new program with a new data file. You want to click >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> data file and invoke the program. How can you do that without >>>>>>>>>>>>> changing >>>>>>>>>>>>> the data used by the OS? To me, that is SOP and not rare at >>>>>>>>>>>>> all. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But the /user/ is responsible for setting up that association. >>>>>>>>>>>> The user >>>>>>>>>>>> double-clicks on "foo.bar", and Windows says "huh? You'd better >>>>>>>>>>>> choose a >>>>>>>>>>>> program for that", and the user chooses my program, and that's >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> user's choice, so it's the user's problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And the tech support guys think badly of you when they have to >>>>>>>>>>> remote- >>>>>>>>>>> access 10,000 machines and set up that association that _should_ >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> been set up by the installer. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I understand your point but I don't agree with it. File >>>>>>>>>> associations >>>>>>>>>> are a pain in the neck, because they rely on a false premise - >>>>>>>>>> i.e. >>>>>>>>>> that the file extension uniquely determines the type of the file. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I once had to write a program to inspect the first few bytes of a >>>>>>>>>> PDF >>>>>>>>>> to discover whether it was a Portable Document Format file (a >>>>>>>>>> document) or a Program Description File (a format used by a screen >>>>>>>>>> layout descriptor utility for COBOL programmers). The program had >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> decide which one it was, and then call either Acrobat or the >>>>>>>>>> screen >>>>>>>>>> layout thing - and the users associated .pdf with /my/ program, >>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>> than Acrobat or the utility. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> File extensions go at least as far back as VM/CMS, but they were >>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>> designed to uniquely determine the type of file (even VM/CMS used >>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>> mode descriptors rather than extensions to determine whether a >>>>>>>>>> file >>>>>>>>>> was supposed to be executable). File associations were a >>>>>>>>>> badly-designed overlay onto file extensions, and Microsoft has >>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>> little, if anything, to address the problems that file >>>>>>>>>> associations >>>>>>>>>> cause. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I probably agree with all that. But it's a bit like complaining >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> the way words are spelled in the English language. For the most >>>>>>>>> part, >>>>>>>>> it works, and people expect other people to honor the conventions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it's in the program spec, fair enough, but there'd better be a >>>>>>>> way to >>>>>>>> remove it, also in the program spec. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it's not in the program spec, then it's just extra work for no >>>>>>>> benefit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And that's true for pretty much any "it", not just file >>>>>>>> associations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you one of those guys who can't figure out what features are >>>>>>> needed >>>>>>> until someone else writes a spec and then you do the bare minimum >>>>>>> necessary to meet the spec? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yup. I guess you're one of those guys who keeps adding features until >>>>>> the machine crashes under the weight of them, and then removes the >>>>>> last one. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's /so/ easy to denigrate other people's design choices, isn't it? >>>>> >>>>> In other words you're a programmer who has never held nor aspired to >>>>> the >>>>> systems analyst role. >>>> >>>> And it's also very easy to jump to incorrect conclusions. >>> >>> You expect someone else to do the design and when it comes acropper you >>> point the finger at them instead of yourself, so it is difficult to draw >>> any other conclusion. >> >> That's not what he said at all - he said he wanted someone else to write the >> specification. > > Yes, he said that No, I didn't. This could have been a polite and interesting conversation, but you turned it into a pissing match. Why? -- Richard Heathfield Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999 Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
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To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-23 18:13 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 06:44 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2016-07-24 04:53 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 04:13 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-25 08:28 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 09:40 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:18 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 11:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 16:46 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:08 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:37 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:16 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 18:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:11 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 14:45 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 21:31 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:06 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:53 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 18:04 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 23:47 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 19:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 14:03 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 12:10 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-24 17:36 +0100
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 11:37 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-24 18:29 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 20:34 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-25 10:00 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-25 11:22 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-25 18:55 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-26 00:19 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-26 04:24 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-26 09:13 -0500
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2016-07-26 14:11 -0700
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-27 02:58 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-27 13:47 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:24 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:40 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-24 13:42 -0400
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute Kaz Kylheku <349-534-5780@kylheku.com> - 2016-07-24 18:29 +0000
Re: To all who write uninstallation programs for software you distribute SIKDER EMRAN <sikderemran4321@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 03:19 -0700
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