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Groups > comp.os.linux.networking > #4266 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-12-18 22:15 +0000 |
| Last post | 2018-12-22 08:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 31 — 8 participants |
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Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2018-12-18 22:15 +0000
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-12-18 23:20 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2018-12-19 17:47 +0000
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-18 15:44 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-19 04:52 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-19 09:22 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-19 12:10 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2018-12-19 17:58 +0000
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-12-19 12:35 -0600
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-19 22:47 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-19 16:52 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-20 04:23 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-19 20:34 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2018-12-19 18:05 +0000
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-19 22:51 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2018-12-20 16:49 +0000
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-20 19:20 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-20 21:28 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-21 09:58 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-21 10:16 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-12-21 19:17 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-21 12:14 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-12-22 08:55 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-22 16:17 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-12-22 23:28 -0500
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Robert Nichols <SEE_SIGNATURE@localhost.localdomain.invalid> - 2018-12-23 07:50 -0600
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-12-23 08:39 -0600
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-22 00:05 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-12-21 18:28 -0700
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-12-22 04:24 +0100
Re: Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2018-12-22 08:50 +0100
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| From | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-18 22:15 +0000 |
| Subject | Configuring thunderbird for gmail (others?) pop3 - security concerns |
| Message-ID | <pvbrhm$168k$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
Hi! I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. However I have a doubt. Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): Normal password Encrypted password Kerberos/GSSAPI NTLM This works for Normal password, but not for Encrypted password (I didn't check the other options). What does "Normal password" mean? Is it secure? Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? Thanks for any help/comments.
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| From | "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-18 23:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <g7ta5hF97rU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #4266 |
On 12/18/18 11:15 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Hi! > > I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. > However I have a doubt. > > Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - > they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): > > Normal password > Encrypted password > Kerberos/GSSAPI > NTLM > > This works for Normal password, but not for Encrypted password (I didn't > check the other options). > > What does "Normal password" mean? > Is it secure? If you use pop3s (port 995) instead of pop3 (port 110) > Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? I would guess as TB don't support 2FA, but then I don't care so much as I don't want to give away that much of my privacy to google. -- //Aho
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| From | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 17:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pve07e$1531$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #4267 |
Às 22:20 de 18/12/18, J.O. Aho escreveu: > On 12/18/18 11:15 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote: >> Hi! >> >>... >> What does "Normal password" mean? >> Is it secure? > > If you use pop3s (port 995) instead of pop3 (port 110) > Yes, I'm using port 995. Thanks
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-18 15:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pvbt8e$7t4$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #4266 |
On 12/18/18 3:15 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Hi! Hi, > I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. > However I have a doubt. > > Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - > they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): > > Normal password > Encrypted password > Kerberos/GSSAPI > NTLM I also see TLS certificate and Oauth2 options. > This works for Normal password, but not for Encrypted password (I didn't > check the other options). > > What does "Normal password" mean? I have always understood "normal password" to mean that the password is transmitted as plain text within the communications channel. > Is it secure? That depends on the communications channel and what connection security is used to protect it. SSL/TLS or STARTTLS provide encryption and protection. Connection security of none means no encryption. Conversely "encrypted password" does not send plain text password. I don't know if it's an actual encryption or if it's simply using the password as a permutation combined with something the server provides and returns a hash (MD5?) to the server, thus proving that you know the password. Kerberos and NTLM are their own critters. As I recently learned, GSSAPI usually means Kerberos (as that's the most common thing used via GSSAPI) but it can also mean NTLM (used differently). Oauth2 is it's own critter. I believe that everything other than normal password has at least some level of protection / security on it's own. SSL/TLS / STARTTLS provide additional security. > Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? It's my understanding that Gmail considers traditional mail box access protocols (POP3 and IMAP) to be less secure than their web / HTTP interface / protocols. As such, they make you enable them to be able to use them. > Thanks for any help/comments. You're welcome. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 04:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vsroef-94k.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4266 |
On 18/12/2018 23.15, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Hi! > > I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. > However I have a doubt. > > Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - > they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): > > Normal password > Encrypted password > Kerberos/GSSAPI > NTLM Forget it. When using Thunderbird (with gmail) just tell the wizard your mail address and lets the automatics figure out the rest. Actually Thunderbird knows how to configure gmail (has a database) without you telling it how, and uses the best known settings. The result will be imap and oauth2. > Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? Thunderbird in oauth2 mode does not need you enable in gmail configuration the misnamed "enable less secure apps". Other tools may need that setting. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 09:22 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <pvcv50$hsq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #4269 |
On 19/12/18 04:52, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 18/12/2018 23.15, Paulo da Silva wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. >> However I have a doubt. >> >> Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - >> they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): >> >> Normal password >> Encrypted password >> Kerberos/GSSAPI >> NTLM > > Forget it. > > When using Thunderbird (with gmail) just tell the wizard your mail > address and lets the automatics figure out the rest. Actually > Thunderbird knows how to configure gmail (has a database) without you > telling it how, and uses the best known settings. > Automatic configuration by Thunderbird is by far the best choice. But you make it sound like it is done in a secret way, or by magic. It is done by reading a URL from an address constructed from the email address - this returns a simple configuration file detailing the settings, server address, etc. Many big email providers (and some small ones - we have it for our company email) have a webserver responding to this URL so that email can be configured "automagically" with Thunderbird. The process is not particularly well documented and publicised, but it is not hidden and it works nicely. Once you have used automatic setup for your email, you can easily look at the settings as normal. > The result will be imap and oauth2. > This is key - you use IMAP, not POP3. I don't know if the OP understands the difference, but the vital point is that with IMAP, the messages and folder structure remain on the server so that all clients - Thunderbird on multiple machines, gmail, webmail, etc., - all see the same email. With POP3 the emails are generally pulled off the server and deleted. > > >> Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? > > Thunderbird in oauth2 mode does not need you enable in gmail > configuration the misnamed "enable less secure apps". Other tools may > need that setting. > > >
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 12:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <dilpef-r2q.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4270 |
On 19/12/2018 09.22, David Brown wrote: > On 19/12/18 04:52, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 18/12/2018 23.15, Paulo da Silva wrote: >>> Hi! >>> >>> I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. >>> However I have a doubt. >>> >>> Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - >>> they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): >>> >>> Normal password >>> Encrypted password >>> Kerberos/GSSAPI >>> NTLM >> >> Forget it. >> >> When using Thunderbird (with gmail) just tell the wizard your mail >> address and lets the automatics figure out the rest. Actually >> Thunderbird knows how to configure gmail (has a database) without you >> telling it how, and uses the best known settings. >> > > Automatic configuration by Thunderbird is by far the best choice. > > But you make it sound like it is done in a secret way, or by magic. Kind of :-) > It > is done by reading a URL from an address constructed from the email > address - this returns a simple configuration file detailing the > settings, server address, etc. Many big email providers (and some small > ones - we have it for our company email) have a webserver responding to > this URL so that email can be configured "automagically" with > Thunderbird. The process is not particularly well documented and > publicised, but it is not hidden and it works nicely. Once you have > used automatic setup for your email, you can easily look at the settings > as normal. Thanks, I didn't know this part. > >> The result will be imap and oauth2. >> > > This is key - you use IMAP, not POP3. I don't know if the OP > understands the difference, but the vital point is that with IMAP, the > messages and folder structure remain on the server so that all clients - > Thunderbird on multiple machines, gmail, webmail, etc., - all see the > same email. With POP3 the emails are generally pulled off the server > and deleted. Well, with IMAP you can also do that, but differently. Simply copy email from the INBOX to a local folder - can be an automatic filter in Thunderbird. Me, I use "fetchmail" for the task, besides having Thunderbird to read and reply directly on the server. There is an advantage with imap on gmail, that with pop3 it is tricky to keep track of what are new or old messages, because gmail doesn't delete anything. Instead it keeps an index pointing to what you last retrieved, but can be reset which makes the client to retrieve thousands of emails again. Happened to me once, then I immediately switched to imap. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 17:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pve0sd$1976$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #4269 |
Às 03:52 de 19/12/18, Carlos E.R. escreveu: > On 18/12/2018 23.15, Paulo da Silva wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. >> However I have a doubt. ... >> >> Normal password >> Encrypted password >> Kerberos/GSSAPI >> NTLM > > Forget it. > > When using Thunderbird (with gmail) just tell the wizard your mail > address and lets the automatics figure out the rest. Actually > Thunderbird knows how to configure gmail (has a database) without you > telling it how, and uses the best known settings. > > The result will be imap and oauth2. > >> Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? > > Thunderbird in oauth2 mode does not need you enable in gmail > configuration the misnamed "enable less secure apps". Other tools may > need that setting. I need to use pop3 because I want all emails on my PC. As much as I know IMAP keeps the messages on the server. Correct me if I am wrong. Oauth2 does not show up on pop3 configuration. Only on SMTP. Thank you.
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| From | Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 12:35 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <slrnq1l3rq.bu0.BitTwister@wb.home.test> |
| In reply to | #4273 |
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:58:39 +0000, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> I need to use pop3 because I want all emails on my PC.
I do not see a problem there. I have
$ grep --count thunderbird /etc/passwd
6
linux thunderbird accounts and have set their fetchmailrc to use imap.
Each user has a hourly cron job to run fetchmail.
I have a root hourly job to give me a xmessage pop up message of any
linux accounts which have email in /var/spool/mail
I click up the user, ~user/.bash_profile launches thunderbird. I have it
configured to use the whatever.com account and my linux user eamil
account.
In that setup I can configure each server in thunderbird to
do what I want about what I read.
You can set thunderbird to immediately delete the message on the
server when read from the server.
I have not bothered to investigate if there is a fetchmailrc to delete
imap email after download.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 22:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <csqqef-1qs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4273 |
On 19/12/2018 18.58, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Às 03:52 de 19/12/18, Carlos E.R. escreveu: >> On 18/12/2018 23.15, Paulo da Silva wrote: >>> Hi! >>> >>> I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. >>> However I have a doubt. > ... > >>> >>> Normal password >>> Encrypted password >>> Kerberos/GSSAPI >>> NTLM >> >> Forget it. >> >> When using Thunderbird (with gmail) just tell the wizard your mail >> address and lets the automatics figure out the rest. Actually >> Thunderbird knows how to configure gmail (has a database) without you >> telling it how, and uses the best known settings. >> >> The result will be imap and oauth2. > >> >>> Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? >> >> Thunderbird in oauth2 mode does not need you enable in gmail >> configuration the misnamed "enable less secure apps". Other tools may >> need that setting. > I need to use pop3 because I want all emails on my PC. As much as I know > IMAP keeps the messages on the server. Correct me if I am wrong. With gmail, both pop3 and imap keep all messages on the server. Remember, Google implements the mail server in a non standard manner. You have to do things differently. What happens, is that the mail disappears from the inbox, but appears on the Archive. > Oauth2 does not show up on pop3 configuration. Only on SMTP. It does on imap. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 16:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pvelkv$5vb$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #4273 |
On 12/19/18 10:58 AM, Paulo da Silva wrote: > I need to use pop3 because I want all emails on my PC. As much as I know > IMAP keeps the messages on the server. Correct me if I am wrong. You can configure Thunderbird to download everything form an IMAP server and cache a copy locally. Granted, it's not a backup per say. If messages are removed from the server, Thunderbird will also remove the local cached copy. I've periodically accessed Thunderbird's local cached copy of my IMAP email for one reason or another. I'm usually wanting to do a grep across my mailbox which is faster than an IMAP search. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-20 04:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <uheref-kfe.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4278 |
On 20/12/2018 00.52, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 12/19/18 10:58 AM, Paulo da Silva wrote: >> I need to use pop3 because I want all emails on my PC. As much as I >> know IMAP keeps the messages on the server. Correct me if I am wrong. > > You can configure Thunderbird to download everything form an IMAP server > and cache a copy locally. > > Granted, it's not a backup per say. If messages are removed from the > server, Thunderbird will also remove the local cached copy. > > I've periodically accessed Thunderbird's local cached copy of my IMAP > email for one reason or another. I'm usually wanting to do a grep > across my mailbox which is faster than an IMAP search. And you can create a filter in Thunderbird to *move* emails from the Inbox to a local folder, and keep thus the local copy only. At least it works on conformant imap servers. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 20:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pvf2lg$6le$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #4279 |
On 12/19/18 8:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: > And you can create a filter in Thunderbird to *move* emails from the > Inbox to a local folder, and keep thus the local copy only. At least it > works on conformant imap servers. Yes, such is possible. I but I like having access to the 1213 different IMAP folders from my different devices. IMAP is *SO* *MUCH* *MORE* than POP3. Why would you want to cripple it down to be a glorified POP3 type connection? -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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| From | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 18:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pve19o$1bf0$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #4266 |
Às 22:15 de 18/12/18, Paulo da Silva escreveu: > Hi! > > I successfully configured my thunderbird (TB) for gmail pop3 access. > However I have a doubt. > > Authentication method has different choices (I am translating from PT - > they may not exactly correspond to real English TB locale): > > Normal password > Encrypted password > Kerberos/GSSAPI > NTLM > > This works for Normal password, but not for Encrypted password (I didn't > check the other options). > > What does "Normal password" mean? > Is it secure? > Why do I need to enable in gmail "less secure apps"? What does this mean? > > Thanks for any help/comments. > I think I can conclude, in summary: - Passwords are in plain text but in an encrypted channel. - Less secure apps for Google may well mean pop3/imap protocols. Thank you very much to all who responded. Regards. Paulo
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-19 22:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <24rqef-7dt.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4274 |
On 19/12/2018 19.05, Paulo da Silva wrote: > > > I think I can conclude, in summary: > - Passwords are in plain text but in an encrypted channel. > - Less secure apps for Google may well mean pop3/imap protocols. No. Less secure in google parlance is non-oauth2. For example, fetchmail is a non-secure app. Alpine is a non-secure app. Because they are not interactive when doing the authorization exchange. Thus any daemon will be "unsecure" to them. Thunderbird uses javascript for this and can present to you a dialog with instructions from them. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-20 16:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pvgh7k$18us$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #4266 |
About the suggestions to move to IMAP (from pop3). Unfortunately I know nothing about IMAP. Before I try, I would like to know if it serves my purposes. 1. I want to keep *all* messages in the server (gmail). If for some reason I need to delete some of them I would prefer to use web browser to delete them there. 2. I want to keep *some* messages locally - in inbox, in private local folders or in the trash, the later for some period. Nothing of this affecting the server. 3. I want to keep some sent messages. 4. I don't want that deleting messages locally causes messages being deleted in the server. Is all of this possible with IMAP? I am also concerned on how to migrate my local mails from pop3 to IMAP, but this may perhaps be easy. As last resource I can save them to local folders. Anyway, I don't want to loose things on the server. Thank you very much for your suggestions and possible help on this.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-20 19:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <t43tef-6bt.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4281 |
On 20/12/2018 17.49, Paulo da Silva wrote: > > About the suggestions to move to IMAP (from pop3). > > Unfortunately I know nothing about IMAP. > Before I try, I would like to know if it serves my purposes. > > 1. I want to keep *all* messages in the server (gmail). If for some > reason I need to delete some of them I would prefer to use web browser > to delete them there. > > 2. I want to keep *some* messages locally - in inbox, in private local > folders or in the trash, the later for some period. Nothing of this > affecting the server. > > 3. I want to keep some sent messages. > > 4. I don't want that deleting messages locally causes messages being > deleted in the server. > > Is all of this possible with IMAP? > > I am also concerned on how to migrate my local mails from pop3 to IMAP, > but this may perhaps be easy. As last resource I can save them to local > folders. Anyway, I don't want to loose things on the server. > > Thank you very much for your suggestions and possible help on this. Imap offers you, basically, the same view that the webmail has. In fact, in some implementations, the webmail service access the mail via imap. I don't know if Google uses this way or accesses directly the files. Gmail mail implementation is not standard. For example, instead of folders it uses labels. Folders are emulated. 1. By default, gmail keeps everything, no matter what you use. Caveat: only one copy. For example, if you mail to a mail list, you will never see the copy the mail list sends back to you as a subscriber. It is considered a duplicate and deleted. This behaviour is peculiar to gmail, it is not related to imap/pop3. 2. Just copy those messages to local folder(s). Everything you do in your local folders is local. 3. If you send via gmail, everything will be kept at gmail. Thunderbird may also keep a local copy. 4. See (2) above. Every action on the local folders is local. However, everything you do on the IMAP view of gmail, is remote. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-20 21:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pvhq79$u3k$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #4281 |
On 12/20/18 9:49 AM, Paulo da Silva wrote: > Before I try, I would like to know if it serves my purposes. Fair enough. > 1. I want to keep *all* messages in the server (gmail). If for some > reason I need to delete some of them I would prefer to use web browser > to delete them there. Deleting messages in IMAP will delete the messages from the server. > 2. I want to keep *some* messages locally - in inbox, in private local > folders or in the trash, the later for some period. Nothing of this > affecting the server. IMAP is a local copy of what's on the server. So modifying something locally will also modify what's on the server. > 3. I want to keep some sent messages. I have my IMAP client save a copy of all sent message in my Sent folder. > 4. I don't want that deleting messages locally causes messages being > deleted in the server. That's contrary to how IMAP is meant to operate. > Is all of this possible with IMAP? No. > I am also concerned on how to migrate my local mails from pop3 to IMAP, > but this may perhaps be easy. As last resource I can save them to local > folders. Anyway, I don't want to loose things on the server. It's trivial to copy messages to a server with IMAP. I think it's impossible to do with POP3. (You can get messages there, just something other than POP3.) > Thank you very much for your suggestions and possible help on this. :-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-21 09:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <cimuef-i1q.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #4283 |
On 21/12/2018 05.28, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 12/20/18 9:49 AM, Paulo da Silva wrote: >> Before I try, I would like to know if it serves my purposes. > > Fair enough. > >> 1. I want to keep *all* messages in the server (gmail). If for some >> reason I need to delete some of them I would prefer to use web browser >> to delete them there. > > Deleting messages in IMAP will delete the messages from the server. On a conforming IMAP server, yes. On Gmail, no, they are moved to the archive, the All Mail folder. > >> 2. I want to keep *some* messages locally - in inbox, in private local >> folders or in the trash, the later for some period. Nothing of this >> affecting the server. > > IMAP is a local copy of what's on the server. So modifying something > locally will also modify what's on the server. Not exactly. Thunderbird keeps a local copy in the cache. But this is different from the structure that Thunderbird calls "Local Folders", which is totally different from the cache copy. What you delete in the "Local Folders" is totally independent of the server and viceversa. >> 4. I don't want that deleting messages locally causes messages being >> deleted in the server. > > That's contrary to how IMAP is meant to operate. See (2). -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-21 10:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pvj769$t12$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #4284 |
On 12/21/18 1:58 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote: > Not exactly. Thunderbird keeps a local copy in the cache. But this is > different from the structure that Thunderbird calls "Local Folders", > which is totally different from the cache copy. What you delete in the > "Local Folders" is totally independent of the server and viceversa. I was speaking about the IMAP account, not the Local Folders account. I have virtually zero use for Local Folders and have routinely hidden it from view if not completely removed it. When you delete a message from the IMAP account, it is deleted from the server. (Presuming communications are functioning properly.) You can configure Thunderbird to move messages from the (IMAP sub)folder to the (IMAP) trash folder. But that move is done on both the client and the server. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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