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(lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops

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  (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-05-09 04:26 +0000
    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 22:11 -0700
    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-08 22:15 -0700
      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 23:13 -0700
    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-09 06:48 -0500
      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 08:11 -0700
        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-05-09 20:07 +0000
          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 13:34 -0700
          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 13:59 -0700
            Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 14:06 -0700
            Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 14:09 -0700
              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 14:10 -0700
              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 14:15 -0700
              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-05-10 07:41 +0000
                Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 07:49 -0700
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 08:12 -0700
                    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 09:23 -0700
                      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 09:30 -0700
                        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 09:34 -0700
                Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-10 10:24 -0500
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 09:24 -0700
                Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 20:17 +0000
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 13:24 -0700
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-10 17:34 -0400
                    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 14:36 -0700
        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 14:05 -0700
          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 14:13 -0700
            Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 14:52 -0700
              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 16:58 -0700
                Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 17:33 -0700
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 19:45 -0700
                    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 21:05 -0700
                    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 23:10 -0700
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-09 19:57 -0700
              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-11 09:14 -0700
                Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 09:44 -0700
                  Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-11 09:48 -0700
                    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 09:59 -0700
                      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-11 10:17 -0700
                        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 10:27 -0700
                          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-11 11:26 -0700
                            Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-05-12 09:11 -0700
                              Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-12 11:24 -0700
    Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 20:14 +0000
      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 13:23 -0700
      Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-05-10 22:55 +0000
        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-05-10 16:05 -0700
        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 02:58 +0000
          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Doomsdrzej <.m@nsn.s> - 2018-05-11 07:23 -0400
            Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 05:45 -0700
          Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-11 11:22 -0500
        Re: (lack of) Consistency in commercial desktops William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2018-05-11 13:36 +0100

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#451043

On 5/10/18 8:24 AM, chrisv wrote:
> vallor wrote:
> 
>> I think it's the high point of hilarity that snitters thinks he is the
>> arbiter of who is and isn't a "real linux advocate".
> 
> Well, the "real" advocates are the ones that agree with the troll,
> obviously!
> 
> Maybe some that have made statements that the troll can dishonestly
> twist into support of the troll.
> 
> Meanwhile, the logic that you presented (using the Windows example)
> rolled off the troll without effect.  Like water off a duck's back.
> 
See: instead of talking about Linux you lash out against those you 
disagree with and engage in name calling.

Excellent example of what I was noting in terms of COLA *not* being 
about real advocacy.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451092

On 2018-05-10, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2018 14:09:27 -0700, Steve Carroll wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 2:59:56 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>> On 5/9/18 1:07 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> > On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:11:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>> > 
>>> >> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>> >>> vallor wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my
>>> >>>> gaming desktop.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>> >>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and
>>> >>>> Linux.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>> >>>
>>> >> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>>> >> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy
>>> >> community they DO understand the value.
>>> > 
>>> > Wrong.
>>> 
>>> I am absolutely right that I and others have a pretty good
>>> understanding of the value!
>> 
>> LOL! You didn't just say "others", you said the "REAL Linux advocacy
>> community"and you're pretending that this 'community' is in agreement
>> with you while showing a ridiculously scant amount of "evidence" where a
>> good chunk of the tiny group of people said they don't care.
>
> I think it's the high point of hilarity that snitters thinks he is the 
> arbiter of who is and isn't a "real linux advocate".

"Snit" has been droning the same horsecrap forever. Only a crank wouldn't 
get bored doing this.

-- 
The more I see of Windows, the more I like Linux.

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#451098

On 5/10/18 1:17 PM, RonB wrote:
> On 2018-05-10, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 14:09:27 -0700, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 2:59:56 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/18 1:07 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:11:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>>>>>> vallor wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my
>>>>>>>> gaming desktop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>>>>>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and
>>>>>>>> Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>>>>>> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy
>>>>>> community they DO understand the value.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I am absolutely right that I and others have a pretty good
>>>> understanding of the value!
>>>
>>> LOL! You didn't just say "others", you said the "REAL Linux advocacy
>>> community"and you're pretending that this 'community' is in agreement
>>> with you while showing a ridiculously scant amount of "evidence" where a
>>> good chunk of the tiny group of people said they don't care.
>>
>> I think it's the high point of hilarity that snitters thinks he is the
>> arbiter of who is and isn't a "real linux advocate".
> 
> "Snit" has been droning the same horsecrap forever. Only a crank wouldn't
> get bored doing this.
> 

Thank you for going out of your way to back my position. As I noted, 
when faced with things REAL advocate groups accept and are willing to 
talk about in a reasoned way, you see COLA "advocates" just lashing out 
with insecurity.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451119

On Thu, 10 May 2018 20:17:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB
<ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2018-05-10, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 14:09:27 -0700, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 2:59:56 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/18 1:07 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:11:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>> > 
>>>> >> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>>> >>> vallor wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my
>>>> >>>> gaming desktop.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>>> >>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and
>>>> >>>> Linux.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>>>> >> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy
>>>> >> community they DO understand the value.
>>>> > 
>>>> > Wrong.
>>>> 
>>>> I am absolutely right that I and others have a pretty good
>>>> understanding of the value!
>>> 
>>> LOL! You didn't just say "others", you said the "REAL Linux advocacy
>>> community"and you're pretending that this 'community' is in agreement
>>> with you while showing a ridiculously scant amount of "evidence" where a
>>> good chunk of the tiny group of people said they don't care.
>>
>> I think it's the high point of hilarity that snitters thinks he is the 
>> arbiter of who is and isn't a "real linux advocate".
>
>"Snit" has been droning the same horsecrap forever. Only a crank wouldn't 
>get bored doing this.

Didn't we all have a vote and elect Michael Glasser the Ultimate
Authority of the Galaxy?

Colour me shocked if we didn't.

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#451120

On 5/10/18 2:34 PM, Doomsdrzej wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2018 20:17:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB
> <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-05-10, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 14:09:27 -0700, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 2:59:56 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On 5/9/18 1:07 PM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:11:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>>>>>>> vallor wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my
>>>>>>>>> gaming desktop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>>>>>>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and
>>>>>>>>> Linux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>>>>>>> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy
>>>>>>> community they DO understand the value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am absolutely right that I and others have a pretty good
>>>>> understanding of the value!
>>>>
>>>> LOL! You didn't just say "others", you said the "REAL Linux advocacy
>>>> community"and you're pretending that this 'community' is in agreement
>>>> with you while showing a ridiculously scant amount of "evidence" where a
>>>> good chunk of the tiny group of people said they don't care.
>>>
>>> I think it's the high point of hilarity that snitters thinks he is the
>>> arbiter of who is and isn't a "real linux advocate".
>>
>> "Snit" has been droning the same horsecrap forever. Only a crank wouldn't
>> get bored doing this.
> 
> Didn't we all have a vote and elect Michael Glasser the Ultimate
> Authority of the Galaxy?
> 
> Colour me shocked if we didn't.
> 
Another fine example of the LACK of advocacy in COLA. Backs my point well!

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450966

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 9:11:25 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
> > vallor wrote:
> > 
> >> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my gaming
> >> desktop.
> >>
> >> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
> >>
> >> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
> >> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
> >>
> >> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and Linux.
> > 
> > Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
> > 
> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to 
> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy community 
> they DO understand the value. And looking at the thread I pointed to is 
> a great example. Here, from that thread:
> 
> <https://goo.gl/ZSWbc9> Ezee Linux on Facebook
>      -----
>      I just spent a rather frustrating morning trying to
>      figure out how to get QT applications and GTK
>      applications to look like they belong together on
>      Ubuntu 18.04 with the GNOME and Unity desktops...
>      I’d like to find a new-user friendly way of doing it
>      but it eludes me. I’ve followed a bunch of
>      suggestions in forums but none has worked
>      satisfactorily. I know it is possible because Linux
>      Mint, Ubuntu MATE and any distribution running the
>      KDE Plasma desktop come with everything setup to
>      look right. KDE offers separate controls for QT and
>      QTK so you can really dial it in while GNOME offers
>      nothing and Ubuntu didn’t bother to try to address
>      the issue downstream. Some folks don’t care, of
>      course, but it’s a real bummer to me. Your thoughts?
>      -----
> 
> And replies to that comment:
>      -----
>      I tried some years ago... and never tried after
>      that. I just accepted it. (I used to run Arch with
>      Xfce4, now I mainly run straight up Debian with
>      Xfce4.)
> 
>      Trying to make things look good would be a dream -
>      but therein lies madness.
>      -----
>          Spoonamore Same here. I'm on Manjaro with Mate. It
>          will all normalize when either QT or GTK dies..
>      -----
>          Hemmingsen Well, I even tried to make the design
>          look good when you do tiled applications at some
>          point. I was really annoyed by the rounded edges
>          in each upper corner. Even when you tiled them.
>          But on the other hand, it works - and it works
>          very well. Hell I ran it on hardware at the time
>          you couldn't even get anymore. At least 10+
>          years old. I just recently upgraded to some
>          better hardware. But it was already fast and
>          could be used well. Even back then.
>      -----
> 
> 
> And looking now, I see this is the "top comment" (other than another 
> from Ezee Linux himself):
>      -----
>      It is not just an issue of looks but of usability.
>      The face this is still as much of an issue on
>      desktop Linux as it is harms adoption and reduced
>      productivity even for most who say they do not care.
> 
>      I am very happy to see you speak of this. Your voice
>      is becoming — or already is — a high profile one.
>      Hopefully this helps the situation improve.
>      -----
> 
> To be fair there ARE some who say it does not bother them much... but 
> the norm, clearly, is to recognize that this IS a issue. 

You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?) 
are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed 
with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"

C'mon, Snit... you know no one will bite on this BS. And how is the 
image Scott showed all that different than what can and *does* 
happen on my Macs?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450971

On 5/9/18 2:05 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 9:11:25 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>> vallor wrote:
>>>
>>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my gaming
>>>> desktop.
>>>>
>>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>>>
>>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>>>
>>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and Linux.
>>>
>>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>>
>> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy community
>> they DO understand the value. And looking at the thread I pointed to is
>> a great example. Here, from that thread:
>>
>> <https://goo.gl/ZSWbc9> Ezee Linux on Facebook
>>       -----
>>       I just spent a rather frustrating morning trying to
>>       figure out how to get QT applications and GTK
>>       applications to look like they belong together on
>>       Ubuntu 18.04 with the GNOME and Unity desktops...
>>       I’d like to find a new-user friendly way of doing it
>>       but it eludes me. I’ve followed a bunch of
>>       suggestions in forums but none has worked
>>       satisfactorily. I know it is possible because Linux
>>       Mint, Ubuntu MATE and any distribution running the
>>       KDE Plasma desktop come with everything setup to
>>       look right. KDE offers separate controls for QT and
>>       QTK so you can really dial it in while GNOME offers
>>       nothing and Ubuntu didn’t bother to try to address
>>       the issue downstream. Some folks don’t care, of
>>       course, but it’s a real bummer to me. Your thoughts?
>>       -----
>>
>> And replies to that comment:
>>       -----
>>       I tried some years ago... and never tried after
>>       that. I just accepted it. (I used to run Arch with
>>       Xfce4, now I mainly run straight up Debian with
>>       Xfce4.)
>>
>>       Trying to make things look good would be a dream -
>>       but therein lies madness.
>>       -----
>>           Spoonamore Same here. I'm on Manjaro with Mate. It
>>           will all normalize when either QT or GTK dies..
>>       -----
>>           Hemmingsen Well, I even tried to make the design
>>           look good when you do tiled applications at some
>>           point. I was really annoyed by the rounded edges
>>           in each upper corner. Even when you tiled them.
>>           But on the other hand, it works - and it works
>>           very well. Hell I ran it on hardware at the time
>>           you couldn't even get anymore. At least 10+
>>           years old. I just recently upgraded to some
>>           better hardware. But it was already fast and
>>           could be used well. Even back then.
>>       -----
>>
>>
>> And looking now, I see this is the "top comment" (other than another
>> from Ezee Linux himself):
>>       -----
>>       It is not just an issue of looks but of usability.
>>       The face this is still as much of an issue on
>>       desktop Linux as it is harms adoption and reduced
>>       productivity even for most who say they do not care.
>>
>>       I am very happy to see you speak of this. Your voice
>>       is becoming — or already is — a high profile one.
>>       Hopefully this helps the situation improve.
>>       -----
>>
>> To be fair there ARE some who say it does not bother them much... but
>> the norm, clearly, is to recognize that this IS a issue.
> 
> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"

Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less 
about the history of the people responding.

> C'mon, Snit... you know no one will bite on this BS. And how is the
> image Scott showed all that different than what can and *does*
> happen on my Macs?

There are not two competing UI paradigms on a Mac, with each one being 
lead by people who note that having two paradigms is detrimental the user.

Again, if YOU do not get the value of UI design that promotes 
productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction that is fine. There are 
many things I do not understand. But why say anything against those who 
do understand and care? What is the value other than to troll?


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450976

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 3:13:39 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/9/18 2:05 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 9:11:25 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> >> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
> >>> vallor wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my gaming
> >>>> desktop.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
> >>>>
> >>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
> >>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
> >>>>
> >>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and Linux.
> >>>
> >>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
> >>>
> >> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
> >> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy community
> >> they DO understand the value. And looking at the thread I pointed to is
> >> a great example. Here, from that thread:
> >>
> >> <https://goo.gl/ZSWbc9> Ezee Linux on Facebook
> >>       -----
> >>       I just spent a rather frustrating morning trying to
> >>       figure out how to get QT applications and GTK
> >>       applications to look like they belong together on
> >>       Ubuntu 18.04 with the GNOME and Unity desktops...
> >>       I’d like to find a new-user friendly way of doing it
> >>       but it eludes me. I’ve followed a bunch of
> >>       suggestions in forums but none has worked
> >>       satisfactorily. I know it is possible because Linux
> >>       Mint, Ubuntu MATE and any distribution running the
> >>       KDE Plasma desktop come with everything setup to
> >>       look right. KDE offers separate controls for QT and
> >>       QTK so you can really dial it in while GNOME offers
> >>       nothing and Ubuntu didn’t bother to try to address
> >>       the issue downstream. Some folks don’t care, of
> >>       course, but it’s a real bummer to me. Your thoughts?
> >>       -----
> >>
> >> And replies to that comment:
> >>       -----
> >>       I tried some years ago... and never tried after
> >>       that. I just accepted it. (I used to run Arch with
> >>       Xfce4, now I mainly run straight up Debian with
> >>       Xfce4.)
> >>
> >>       Trying to make things look good would be a dream -
> >>       but therein lies madness.
> >>       -----
> >>           Spoonamore Same here. I'm on Manjaro with Mate. It
> >>           will all normalize when either QT or GTK dies..
> >>       -----
> >>           Hemmingsen Well, I even tried to make the design
> >>           look good when you do tiled applications at some
> >>           point. I was really annoyed by the rounded edges
> >>           in each upper corner. Even when you tiled them.
> >>           But on the other hand, it works - and it works
> >>           very well. Hell I ran it on hardware at the time
> >>           you couldn't even get anymore. At least 10+
> >>           years old. I just recently upgraded to some
> >>           better hardware. But it was already fast and
> >>           could be used well. Even back then.
> >>       -----
> >>
> >>
> >> And looking now, I see this is the "top comment" (other than another
> >> from Ezee Linux himself):
> >>       -----
> >>       It is not just an issue of looks but of usability.
> >>       The face this is still as much of an issue on
> >>       desktop Linux as it is harms adoption and reduced
> >>       productivity even for most who say they do not care.
> >>
> >>       I am very happy to see you speak of this. Your voice
> >>       is becoming — or already is — a high profile one.
> >>       Hopefully this helps the situation improve.
> >>       -----
> >>
> >> To be fair there ARE some who say it does not bother them much... but
> >> the norm, clearly, is to recognize that this IS a issue.
> > 
> > You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> > are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> > with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> 
> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less 
> about the history of the people responding.

LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".

> > C'mon, Snit... you know no one will bite on this BS. And how is the
> > image Scott showed all that different than what can and *does*
> > happen on my Macs?
> 
> There are not two competing UI paradigms on a Mac,

BS. The only thing that has a shot at being guaranteed any level
of consistency is the look of the 3 circular window widgets and 
the placement of the window title. I've been a Mac user for 
decades, Snit, you're not gonna be able to fool me with this BS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450985

On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 3:13:39 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/9/18 2:05 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 9:11:25 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/18 4:48 AM, chrisv wrote:
>>>>> vallor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't an exaggeration, they are all applications I run on my gaming
>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://imgur.com/QuhB6zn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's Windows 10, and we're used to these so-called "inconsistent"
>>>>>> interfaces.  As I said before:  big woop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For those confused by such things, stay away from Windows and Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep.  That's what the Mac is for.
>>>>>
>>>> The point I was making was that as much as those in COLA fail to
>>>> understand the value, when you look at a REAL Linux advocacy community
>>>> they DO understand the value. And looking at the thread I pointed to is
>>>> a great example. Here, from that thread:
>>>>
>>>> <https://goo.gl/ZSWbc9> Ezee Linux on Facebook
>>>>        -----
>>>>        I just spent a rather frustrating morning trying to
>>>>        figure out how to get QT applications and GTK
>>>>        applications to look like they belong together on
>>>>        Ubuntu 18.04 with the GNOME and Unity desktops...
>>>>        I’d like to find a new-user friendly way of doing it
>>>>        but it eludes me. I’ve followed a bunch of
>>>>        suggestions in forums but none has worked
>>>>        satisfactorily. I know it is possible because Linux
>>>>        Mint, Ubuntu MATE and any distribution running the
>>>>        KDE Plasma desktop come with everything setup to
>>>>        look right. KDE offers separate controls for QT and
>>>>        QTK so you can really dial it in while GNOME offers
>>>>        nothing and Ubuntu didn’t bother to try to address
>>>>        the issue downstream. Some folks don’t care, of
>>>>        course, but it’s a real bummer to me. Your thoughts?
>>>>        -----
>>>>
>>>> And replies to that comment:
>>>>        -----
>>>>        I tried some years ago... and never tried after
>>>>        that. I just accepted it. (I used to run Arch with
>>>>        Xfce4, now I mainly run straight up Debian with
>>>>        Xfce4.)
>>>>
>>>>        Trying to make things look good would be a dream -
>>>>        but therein lies madness.
>>>>        -----
>>>>            Spoonamore Same here. I'm on Manjaro with Mate. It
>>>>            will all normalize when either QT or GTK dies..
>>>>        -----
>>>>            Hemmingsen Well, I even tried to make the design
>>>>            look good when you do tiled applications at some
>>>>            point. I was really annoyed by the rounded edges
>>>>            in each upper corner. Even when you tiled them.
>>>>            But on the other hand, it works - and it works
>>>>            very well. Hell I ran it on hardware at the time
>>>>            you couldn't even get anymore. At least 10+
>>>>            years old. I just recently upgraded to some
>>>>            better hardware. But it was already fast and
>>>>            could be used well. Even back then.
>>>>        -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And looking now, I see this is the "top comment" (other than another
>>>> from Ezee Linux himself):
>>>>        -----
>>>>        It is not just an issue of looks but of usability.
>>>>        The face this is still as much of an issue on
>>>>        desktop Linux as it is harms adoption and reduced
>>>>        productivity even for most who say they do not care.
>>>>
>>>>        I am very happy to see you speak of this. Your voice
>>>>        is becoming — or already is — a high profile one..
>>>>        Hopefully this helps the situation improve.
>>>>        -----
>>>>
>>>> To be fair there ARE some who say it does not bother them much... but
>>>> the norm, clearly, is to recognize that this IS a issue.
>>>
>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
>>
>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>> about the history of the people responding.
> 
> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".

Ah, you are splitting hairs, but sure... a "fair" nit, as far as silly 
little nits go. People understanding and caring about this issue, which 
impacts productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction, is clearly 
common. And for those who are not as concerned it seems uncommon, 
outside of COLA, to attack or insult those that do have a decent 
understanding of the issue.

>>> C'mon, Snit... you know no one will bite on this BS. And how is the
>>> image Scott showed all that different than what can and *does*
>>> happen on my Macs?
>>
>> There are not two competing UI paradigms on a Mac,
> 
> BS.

Oh, Carroll, back to your games of snipping sentences in half to ignore 
the context. Here, the FULL sentence:

      There are not two competing UI paradigms on a Mac, with
      each one being lead by people who note that having two
      paradigms is detrimental the user.

Now you can claim this was some bizarre error, but unless you do your 
actions right there were a fine example of your dishonesty. No need to 
dig back even days to find examples, no less years.

> The only thing that has a shot at being guaranteed any level
> of consistency is the look of the 3 circular window widgets and
> the placement of the window title. I've been a Mac user for
> decades, Snit, you're not gonna be able to fool me with this BS.

While the macOS environment is FAR from perfect in this area, there are 
times you want inconsistency. The real issue is the proper use of 
consistency (and inconsistency if you will). It is doing so with purpose 
and based on what the research shows works. Still, you are right to note 
macOS is far from perfect here... for example file dialogs (open and 
save) are FAIRLY consistent but far from perfect even with Apple 
programs (heck, look at the ones from iMovie to see a fine bit of 
insanity). The iMovie UI disaster is one reason I prefer other video 
editing tools.

Still, even with iMovie (what I consider to be a pretty big "error" in 
terms of UI), the level of consistency with the rest of the system is 
pretty amazing. Just some things:

* Menu names and placements. The menu, of course, is where macOS menus 
almost always are, and the terms are the same: without even looking, if 
you are familiar with macOS, you know where the "Preferences" are and 
that they are called that and not "options" or the like, you know where 
"Quit" is and what it will be called (and that you can opt to quit 
keeping windows or not), you know the Share menu item will give you 
options where it makes sense to share your video, you know where to find 
the version information.

* With all or at least most of that, you know the hot keys. For example,
you know what hot key will take you to preferences or to do even rather 
"obscure" things like get to Emoji and symbols if you are adding text.

* You know what the Share icon will look like and (at least roughly) 
what it will do.

* You know that the file dialogs, as "odd" as some are (Import Media), 
will have the "action" button on the far right and the "no action" 
option to the left of that.

* You know that when you go to import an image you will be able to look 
for it by Album or People or Places or the like.

Now iMovie does have an inconsistent color -- a darker theme. This makes 
sense though given the context (though carrying this over the the file 
dialogs seems odd). The fact Photos does NOT have this except for in its 
Edit mode is rather absurd, really. That is a case where an inconsistent 
UI (or at least the option for one) would be a benefit and Apple fails 
to provide it (or if they do I am not aware of it).

Sigh... and that is a LOT to go over to have you, likely, give some 
variation of "nuh uh" in response. :)


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450991

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:58:59 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:

(snip)

> >>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> >>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> >>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> >>
> >> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
> >> about the history of the people responding.
> > 
> > LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
> 
> Ah, you are splitting hairs,

Not a single hair needed splitting to point out 4 people aren't "the norm".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450995

On 5/9/18 5:33 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:58:59 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
>>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
>>>>
>>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>>>> about the history of the people responding.
>>>
>>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
>>
>> Ah, you are splitting hairs,
> 
> Ah, you are splitting hairs, but sure... a "fair" nit, as far as silly
> little nits go. People understanding and caring about this issue,
> which impacts productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction, is
> clearly common. And for those who are not as concerned it seems
> uncommon, outside of COLA, to attack or insult those that do have a
> decent understanding of the issue. 
> 
What four people do you even mean?

And interesting how I was exactly right about your showing NOW 
understanding about the comments of the competing system you talked about.

You are back to just snipping all content that proves you wrong... then 
insisting you are right. Funny to watch.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451004

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 7:45:26 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> On 5/9/18 5:33 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:58:59 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> > 
> > (snip)
> > 
> >>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> >>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> >>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> >>>>
> >>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
> >>>> about the history of the people responding.
> >>>
> >>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
> >>
> >> Ah, you are splitting hairs,
> > 
> > Ah, you are splitting hairs, but sure... a "fair" nit, as far as silly
> > little nits go. People understanding and caring about this issue,
> > which impacts productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction, is
> > clearly common. And for those who are not as concerned it seems
> > uncommon, outside of COLA, to attack or insult those that do have a
> > decent understanding of the issue. 
> > 
> What four people do you even mean?
> 
> And interesting how I was exactly right about your showing NOW 
> understanding about the comments of the competing system you talked about.
> 
> You are back to just snipping all content that proves you wrong... then 
> insisting you are right. Funny to watch.
> 
> -- 
> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
> cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
> somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
> 
> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
> 
> <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>



jacobnavia calls it "obsessing" over him, even though he proceeds to elicit that exact standard. dorayme owns jacobnavia in every way possible. Don't look now, but I think jacobnavia has a serious obsession with dorayme. I'd reply to jacobnavia honestly but he's an ass who takes things out of context to achieve his aspiration to call everyone a fool. Ending support for Mac Classic is what it comes down to. 



--
Do not click this link!!
http://www.5z8.info/stalin-will-rise-again_j3h5uj_nakedgrandmas.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhOfBmWwCVY
https://youtu.be/dNhvVfD4zu4
Jonas Eklundh Communication

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451009

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 7:45:26 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote:
> On 5/9/18 5:33 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:58:59 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> > 
> > (snip)
> > 
> >>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> >>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> >>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> >>>>
> >>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
> >>>> about the history of the people responding.
> >>>
> >>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
> >>
> >> Ah, you are splitting hairs,
> > 
> > Ah, you are splitting hairs, but sure... a "fair" nit, as far as silly
> > little nits go. People understanding and caring about this issue,
> > which impacts productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction, is
> > clearly common. And for those who are not as concerned it seems
> > uncommon, outside of COLA, to attack or insult those that do have a
> > decent understanding of the issue. 
> > 
> What four people do you even mean?
> 
> And interesting how I was exactly right about your showing NOW 
> understanding about the comments of the competing system you talked about.
> 
> You are back to just snipping all content that proves you wrong... then 
> insisting you are right. Funny to watch.
> 
> -- 
> Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
> cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
> somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
> 
> They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
> 
> <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>



Demanding Doc O'Leary to stop trolling, as fruitless as it is, is distinct from spotting his flooding. My bottom line was that advocates arrive here to combat trolls. It is not like most do not quickly figure out what this forum is, Thomas E. especially. Some time ago I did work on and showed some bash for the front end (only works on VPN) which is the only thing you can do when trying to avoid Doc O'Leary's kiddie crap while reading with Google Groups. 

Just give it up already. You're again trying to push your ego when you have no skill. You're the dull knife in the drawer and your many hare-brained programs show this. 

Please show a case study of an effective corporation that has gained its wealth by not giving a damn about its customers and wares. You purchased it and did extensive testing and your "professional opinions" lead you to that assumption, and... 

Doc O'Leary has yet to show how LibreOffice does anything above the minimum on Linux. 



- 
Best CMS Solution of 2017!
http://alt.conspiracy.narkive.com/QcWYJ4Px/the-mentally-ill-mark-s-bilk
http://www.5z8.info/killallimmigrants_j6f7mm_gruesome-gunshot-wounds
http://prescottcomputerguy.com/screenflow
Jonas Eklundh

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#450998

On 5/9/18 5:33 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:58:59 PM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
>>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
>>>>
>>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>>>> about the history of the people responding.
>>>
>>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
>>
>> Ah, you are splitting hairs, but sure... a "fair" nit, as far as
>> silly little nits go. People understanding and caring about this
>> issue, which impacts productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction,
>> is clearly common. And for those who are not as concerned it seems
>> uncommon, outside of COLA, to attack or insult those that do have a
>> decent understanding of the issue. 
> 
> Not a single hair needed splitting to point out 4 people aren't "the norm".
> 
What four people do you even mean?

And interesting how I was exactly right about your showing NO 
understanding about the comments of the competing system you talked about.

You are back to just snipping all content that proves you wrong... then 
insisting you are right. Funny to watch.

And what you snipped:

While the macOS environment is FAR from perfect in this area, there are 
times you want inconsistency. The real issue is the proper use of 
consistency (and inconsistency if you will). It is doing so with purpose 
and based on what the research shows works. Still, you are right to note 
macOS is far from perfect here... for example file dialogs (open and 
save) are FAIRLY consistent but far from perfect even with Apple 
programs (heck, look at the ones from iMovie to see a fine bit of 
insanity). The iMovie UI disaster is one reason I prefer other video 
editing tools.

Still, even with iMovie (what I consider to be a pretty big "error" in 
terms of UI), the level of consistency with the rest of the system is 
pretty amazing. Just some things:

* Menu names and placements. The menu, of course, is where macOS menus 
almost always are, and the terms are the same: without even looking, if 
you are familiar with macOS, you know where the "Preferences" are and 
that they are called that and not "options" or the like, you know where 
"Quit" is and what it will be called (and that you can opt to quit 
keeping windows or not), you know the Share menu item will give you 
options where it makes sense to share your video, you know where to find 
the version information.

* With all or at least most of that, you know the hot keys. For example,
you know what hot key will take you to preferences or to do even rather 
"obscure" things like get to Emoji and symbols if you are adding text.

* You know what the Share icon will look like and (at least roughly) 
what it will do.

* You know that the file dialogs, as "odd" as some are (Import Media), 
will have the "action" button on the far right and the "no action" 
option to the left of that.

* You know that when you go to import an image you will be able to look 
for it by Album or People or Places or the like.

Now iMovie does have an inconsistent color -- a darker theme. This makes 
sense though given the context (though carrying this over the the file 
dialogs seems odd). The fact Photos does NOT have this except for in its 
Edit mode is rather absurd, really. That is a case where an inconsistent 
UI (or at least the option for one) would be a benefit and Apple fails 
to provide it (or if they do I am not aware of it).

Sigh... and that is a LOT to go over to have you, likely, give some 
variation of "nuh uh" in response. :)

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451173

On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"

>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>> about the history of the people responding.

> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".

They seem to be. While you say only four people, if you actually read 
the thread, it is clearly the norm there are more than four people, but 
even if you pick nit with the term "norm", it is clear your claim of 
merely four people is flat out wrong. Here are eight (different 
people... and not including my comments):

EzeeLinux
     -----
     I just spent a rather frustrating morning trying to
     figure out how to get QT applications and GTK
     applications to look like they belong together on
     Ubuntu 18.04 with the GNOME and Unity desktops… I’d
     like to find a new-user friendly way of doing it but
     it eludes me. I’ve followed a bunch of suggestions
     in forums but none has worked satisfactorily. I know
     it is possible because Linux Mint, Ubuntu MATE and
     any distribution running the KDE Plasma desktop come
     with everything setup to look right. KDE offers
     separate controls for QT and QTK so you can really
     dial it in while GNOME offers nothing and Ubuntu
     didn’t bother to try to address the issue
     downstream. Some folks don’t care, of course, but
     it’s a real bummer to me. Your thoughts?
     -----

Person 2
     -----
     IMO.... It seems Basic-GUI-Settings do tend to take
     a back-seat to functionality. These QT/GTK issues
     reminds that there is also a lack of Sound-Themes
     and Settings for DE's. For me, I find it very
     important to be able to set sounds-events in a DE.
     When I am doing a 1,000 things at one time, it's
     nice to get audio-notification of something going
     on. Especially if you are in another room. Cinnamon
     has come closest to fixing this audio issue. In any
     event, it's time for DE standards to be drafted. All
     DE's need to meet basic standards.
     -----

Person 3
     -----
     I tried some years ago... and never tried after
     that. I just accepted it. (I used to run Arch with
     Xfce4, now I mainly run straight up Debian with
     Xfce4.)

     Trying to make things look good would be a dream -
     but therein lies madness.
     -----

Person 4
     -----
     with the path gnome is taking with CSD it will just
     be a dream we once had because such applications
     dont even get along with each other i just switch to
     KDE and wait for Gnomes demise
     -----

Person 5
     -----
     I was happy to see the no-csd fix is in the Xubuntu
     18 repository so can be installed without resorting
     to editing files. I hate the way apps do the
     no-borders, trying to look like Windows thing! Ugly
     and horrible to use!
     -----

Person 6
     -----
     Short: I don't know a solution, but I admire the
     problem. Also: Adwaita and Breeze look similar
     enough in an GTK Environment as long as you don't
     change things
     -----

Person 7
     -----
     Same here with openSUSE with KDE Plasma. It works
     fine with Breeze, Breeze Dark, and Arc Dark themes.
     But if you are someone like me who hates flat themes
     and want something elegant like Oxygen, it will make
     all your GTK apps look like crap
     -----

Person 8
     -----
     I only run a couple of QT apps so I don't really
     care too much. Having said that I do prefer a
     consistent looking desktop and a little baffled why
     some clever programmer can't fix this issue.
     -----

Your response will be to snip. This is 100% predictable. You will not 
face the fact that, yes, it is -- if not the norm -- at least a very 
commonly expressed idea in that discussion and your claim of "four" was 
clearly wrong by AT LEAST 100%

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451182

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> >>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> >>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> 
> >> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
> >> about the history of the people responding.
> 
> > LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
> 
> They seem to be.


Right... 4, oh... excuse me, 8 people out of millions and millions 
are "the norm". Sure, Snit... whatever you say <eyeroll>. For all
anyone knows, being that there are those among your "8" that
have no FB history, it could just be you doing what you've done
for decades. 

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#451183

On 5/11/18 9:44 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
>>
>>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>>>> about the history of the people responding.
>>
>>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
>>
>> They seem to be.
> 
> 
> Right... 4, oh... excuse me, 8 people out of millions and millions

No, out of the dozen or so in that discussion. It is not as if "millions 
and millions" of people participated!

So, yes, when over half the people in the discussion show some level of 
agreement and understanding, yes, it is the norm for that discussion.

> are "the norm". Sure, Snit... whatever you say <eyeroll>. For all
> anyone knows, being that there are those among your "8" that
> have no FB history, it could just be you doing what you've done
> for decades.

Ah, and then you attribute to me the actions of others. Again. Your 
obsession with me is never ending. And your lack of ability to 
understand basic logic is amazing... really, I note it seems the norm 
based on that discussion, and you move goal posts to "millions and 
millions" of people.

It is like your idiocy with Politifact where you whine about them not 
rating EVERY comment made by anyone they rate any comment about. Utterly 
absurd and insane. You argue just to argue and show no understanding of 
the most basic of comments.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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#451186

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> On 5/11/18 9:44 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> > On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
> >> On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> >>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
> >>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
> >>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
> >>
> >>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
> >>>> about the history of the people responding.
> >>
> >>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
> >>
> >> They seem to be.
> > 
> > 
> > Right... 4, oh... excuse me, 8 people out of millions and millions
> 
> No, out of the dozen or so in that discussion. It is not as if "millions 
> and millions" of people participated!

There are no assurances some of those "dozen or so" aren't just 
you playing with your puppet collection again.

> So, yes, when over half the people in the discussion show some level of 
> agreement and understanding, yes, it is the norm for that discussion.

But not when "the people" aren't "people". If someone has no FB 
history at all and goes straight to a discussion on Linux and talks 
to *you* we all know what that is likely to mean.

AGAIN: People are not as stupid as you need them to be.

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#451189

On 5/11/18 9:59 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>> On 5/11/18 9:44 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 5/9/18 2:52 PM, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>>> You call that thread (with very few people in it) in where many (most?)
>>>>>>> are saying they don't care,  "the norm"? And the only guy that agreed
>>>>>>> with you has no FB history:"Jon Christopher Spoonamore"
>>>>
>>>>>> Many in that discussion show understanding, and I could not care less
>>>>>> about the history of the people responding.
>>>>
>>>>> LOL! You seem to have forgotten you just called them "the norm".
>>>>
>>>> They seem to be.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right... 4, oh... excuse me, 8 people out of millions and millions
>>
>> No, out of the dozen or so in that discussion. It is not as if "millions
>> and millions" of people participated!
> 
> There are no assurances some of those "dozen or so" aren't just
> you playing with your puppet collection again.

There ARE assurances you are trolling to avoid simple facts:

1) It was the norm of that discussion
2) It was at least double the number of people you said
    (not including me)

As noted, in a REAL advocacy group they are not afraid to talk about 
this issue... they do not feel the need to lie about Linux to try to 
make it seem better than it is. And, of course, they are open to 
disagreement -- there are those who do not see this as an issue and they 
also added comments, and that is fine. Nobody attacked them or insulted 
them in any way.

It is a real advocacy group where Linux is the topic, not insults and 
attacks. And in such a group, yes, it is common for people to understand 
that the UI issues of the Linux ecosystem are real and significant.

Now I do want to make clear that just because it was the norm of THAT 
thread it does not prove it is that commonly understood among Linux 
users -- undoubtedly the people in the group are self-selected and 
likely not representative (the more casual user, for example, is less 
likely to be a part of such a group) and more importantly those who do 
not care about the UI issues are less likely to join such a 
conversation. So while I was correct to call it the "norm" in terms of 
that discussion, it should be noted that this does not prove it is the 
"norm" for all Linux users to understand this issue. In other words, 
without digging through exact wording, this means you were right to note 
it has not been shown to be the "norm" in general, or even that the data 
we have leads to such a conclusion. I might not have been clear about 
that at first.

Notice I have no issue noting that. For me it is not about mindlessly 
attacking you, as your focus in life is about mindlessly attacking me 
(and otherwise obsessing over me).

When I first started responding to you, you were on your "best" 
behavior. Maybe this was to try to pull me back in to giving you another 
chance. Why not go back to that? Stop making mindless, knee-jerk 
accusations and insults. Stop nit picking my every word and playing word 
games and messing with context. Just be a reasonable person.

I have (and am) giving you another chance. You are going out of your way 
to blow it. Why? Are you hoping to get me to stop responding to your 
lies again?


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#451194

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 11:17:35 AM UTC-6, Snit wrote:

(snip whining)

> As noted, in a REAL advocacy group they are not afraid to talk about 
> this issue... 

And you're here instead of there because... ?

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