Groups > comp.mobile.android > #54790 > unrolled thread

Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?

Started by	sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
First post	2018-08-16 17:58 -0700
Last post	2018-08-17 12:01 -0500
Articles	20 on this page of 111 — 14 participants

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#54790 — Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?

From	sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
Date	2018-08-16 17:58 -0700
Subject	Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?
Message-ID	<pl56k6$51s$1@dont-email.me>

Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their 
phones?

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/08/16/2018-iphone-x-apple-pencil-support/

Probably. Since Apple already added active stylus support to the iPad 
Pro, and Samsung has it on the Galaxy Note series, it is only reasonable 
that the iPhone gain this same functionality. Hopefully with a smaller 
stylus than the one used with the iPad Pro! I really like my “Apple 
Pencil” on the iPad Pro, though mouse support, like on the Microsoft 
Surface Pro and on Android tablets, would be really nice when using the 
iPad as a computer with the keyboard.

Now what really would be awesome is if Apple also copied Microsoft’s 
“Windows Ink” and active stylus that is available on an increasing 
number of laptops. There are already software applications that require 
the use of Windows Ink. Had to buy my son one those laptops because one 
of the applications he uses in college will only work with a Windows 10 
machine that supports Windows Ink.

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#54791

From	VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
Date	2018-08-16 20:19 -0500
Message-ID	<1hrdbqmh6c77t.dlg@v.nguard.lh>
In reply to	#54790

sms wrote:

> Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their 
> phones?
> 
> https://www.macrumors.com/2018/08/16/2018-iphone-x-apple-pencil-support/
> 
> Probably. Since Apple already added active stylus support to the iPad 
> Pro, and Samsung has it on the Galaxy Note series, it is only reasonable 
> that the iPhone gain this same functionality. Hopefully with a smaller 
> stylus than the one used with the iPad Pro! I really like my “Apple 
> Pencil” on the iPad Pro, though mouse support, like on the Microsoft 
> Surface Pro and on Android tablets, would be really nice when using the 
> iPad as a computer with the keyboard.
> 
> Now what really would be awesome is if Apple also copied Microsoft’s 
> “Windows Ink” and active stylus that is available on an increasing 
> number of laptops. There are already software applications that require 
> the use of Windows Ink. Had to buy my son one those laptops because one 
> of the applications he uses in college will only work with a Windows 10 
> machine that supports Windows Ink.

And what did your post have to do with *Android*, the topic of THIS
newsgroup?

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#54793

From	Arthur Conan Doyle <lab@rules.com.invalid>
Date	2018-08-17 09:07 +0100
Message-ID	<UmvdD.41591$8w.32967@fx40.am4>
In reply to	#54791

VanguardLH wrote:
> 
> And what did your post have to do with *Android*, the topic of THIS
> newsgroup?

It is a troll of the same ilk as Ragnusen Ultred (Arlen Holder's previous nym).

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#54796

From	sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 06:12 -0700
Message-ID	<pl6hje$jb6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54791

On 8/16/2018 6:19 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

<snip>

> And what did your post have to do with *Android*, the topic of THIS
> newsgroup?

It is comparing the features of Android devices with those of iOS 
devices. Since the two ecosystems tend to copy features from each other, 
in both directions, for better (styluses, larger screens, IP67/68 etc.) 
or worse (loss of headphone jacks, loss of MicroSD card slots, "the 
notch") it is certainly relevant.

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#54797

From	Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>
Date	2018-08-17 15:24 +0000
Message-ID	<pl6pb0$upe$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#54796

On 17 Aug 2018 06:12:12 GMT, sms wrote:

> It is comparing the features of Android devices with those of iOS 
> devices. Since the two ecosystems tend to copy features from each other, 
> in both directions, for better (styluses, larger screens, IP67/68 etc.) 
> or worse (loss of headphone jacks, loss of MicroSD card slots, "the 
> notch") it is certainly relevant.

I have two points of view, one for each of those two topics, where, as sms
knows, I have had (& still have) _both_ iOS and Android devices for years.

1. The stylus (is it really useful?)
2. Copying features (it's not what you think)

STYLUS:
I have an LG Stylo 3 Plus Android phone, which comes with a stylus, but
which I haven't found a use for yet that isn't anything I want to do.

If there is a good use, let me know - as I'm not good with one-finger
keyboards either - but the stylus doesn't seem to be any faster or more
accurate in writing-to-letter tests of mine. 

I don't "draw" on my phone - so I'm not sure what good the stylus is for me
other than for "text" but I also suck at leaving myself memos so if there
was a great way to leave myself timed to-do notes, that would be great if
the stylus works for that in as few clicks as possible (preferably a singe
action for such things is desired).

COPYING:
While the highly marketed "stylish" Android phones *do* copy what Apple
leads with (e.g., no battery replacement, no headphone jack, no sdcard
slot, super high price, etc.), I think the "basic" Android phones do not
always copy what the highly marketed phones do.

For example, removable batteries is a bonus to the consumer, as is an sd
slot, as is a headphone jack - where the main reason marketing loves
removing those features, IMHO, is that they can LOCK the consumer into
their proprietary solutions. 

Apple is the *best* in the world in *locking the consumer* into proprietary
features, where I think it's sad that the highly marketed Android phones
copy suite.

Still - the less marketed phones (e.g., the $130 8-core LG Stylo 3 Plus,
which costs five times less than the far-less-functional but let's call it
essentially hardware equivalent 3-core iPhone 7 Plus - has *all* those
hardware features - and more... 
a. Removable battery
b. 2TB sd card slot
c. headphone jack

My main point is that not all the Android devices are copying the highly
marketed ways of Android.

A side note is that if the consumer refuses to purchase these expensive
limited restricted Android iPhone copies, the consumer will win in the end. 

It's like refusing to purchase highly marketed drugs from a drug dealer.

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#54805

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-17 10:15 -0700
Message-ID	<pl6vrr$fj0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54797

On 8/17/2018 8:24 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> removable batteries is a bonus to the consumer

I like it that when I drop my phone it no longer breaks into 3 pieces
(battery, cover, phone). I've yet to have to replace a battery because
of old age before I WANTED a new phone (usually around 2 years). I like
the smaller phone case possible by eliminating the removable battery.
The wife's iPhone 6+ recently suffered from a swollen battery. It was
not difficult to replace (about 30 minutes of my labor) and cost US$30
including tools. YMMV.

> as is an sd slot

With the large amount of internal storage available in my current
Android phone I have yet to need an SD card. YMMV.

> as is a headphone jack

Agreed. I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...

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#54807

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-08-17 13:30 -0400
Message-ID	<170820181330138394%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#54805

In article <pl6vrr$fj0$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
wrote:

> 
> > as is a headphone jack
> 
> Agreed. I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
> complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...

it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box as
well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones. it also fully supports
all bluetooth headsets and headphones. it's a complete non-issue.

it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also had
a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb jack.
<https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/confirmed-t-mobile-g1-has-no-3-5mm-
headphone-jack/>

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#54808

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-17 11:01 -0700
Message-ID	<pl72if$1n9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54807

On 8/17/2018 10:30 AM, nospam wrote:
> abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com wrote:

>> I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to complain
>> about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...

> it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box

One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.

> as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.

Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.

> it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.

Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks. YMMV.

> it's a complete non-issue.

It's an issue for me. And I suppose it is for all those others
complaining about phones with no earphone hole.

> it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also
> had a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb
> jack.

That type of Android phone appears to have died out. Wonder why...

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#54809

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-08-17 14:42 -0400
Message-ID	<170820181442218110%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#54808

In article <pl72if$1n9$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
wrote:

> >> I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to complain
> >> about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV thing...
> 
> > it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the box
> 
> One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.

most people use the headphones in the box (or they use the speakers
built into the phone). there are also numerous third party headphones.

> > as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
> 
> Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.

nothing dangles, other than the wires that normally would. 

> > it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
> 
> Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks. YMMV.

no hassles and no bulk, nor any dangling wires to get caught on
anything. 

some even fit entirely in the ear, which is as bulk-free as it gets:
<https://i2.wp.com/www.automatedhome.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/br
agi-headphone-in-ear.jpg>

> > it's a complete non-issue.
> 
> It's an issue for me. And I suppose it is for all those others
> complaining about phones with no earphone hole.

people love to complain, yet sales keep going up as more manufacturers
move to digital headphone jacks.

analog headphone jacks are obsolete.

> > it's also nothing new. the first android phone, back in 2008, also
> > had a digital headphone jack, except that used a non-standard ext-usb
> > jack.
> 
> That type of Android phone appears to have died out. Wonder why...

it didn't.

there are currently a *lot* of android phones with usb-c headphone
jacks, including the google pixel, considered to be 'pure android', the
essential phone from andy rubin, who created android, as well as
several other major device makers, including motorola and htc as well
as several smaller and lesser known manufacturers.

<https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/google-dropped-the-pixels-headphone-j
ack-to-lay-the-groundwork-for-a-bezel-free-phone/>
  ³The primary reason [for dropping the jack] is establishing a
  mechanical design path for the future,² Google product chief Mario
  Queiroz told TechCrunch after the event. ³We want the display to go
  closer and closer to the edge. 

<https://www.businessinsider.com/htc-u11-life-headphone-jack-usb-c-noise-
canceling-headphones-2017-11>
  HTC ditched the headphone jack on its new smartphone ‹ but replaced
  it with something way better
...
  At this stage in the game, that's hardly a surprise. Most smartphone
  makers are ditching the traditional headphone jack to make phones
  thinner and to embrace the wireless-headphones revolution. Even
  Google, which poked fun at Apple last year for removing the headphone
  jack, got rid of it on this year's Pixel 2.
...
  But wait, it gets better: USB-C ports are able to power things that
  are plugged into them, which means that a pair of pretty standard,
  free earbuds are able to become noise canceling.

<https://www.androidcentral.com/moto-z-doesnt-have-headphone-jack>
  The Z does have a USB Type-C port, which does an excellent job of
  outputting digital audio. Our own Michael Fisher has confirmed that
  the Moto Z comes with a USB-C headphone adapter, which should convert
  the audio into analog so you can plug in the headphones you already
  have to listen to music or watch a movie or even talk on (or to) your
  phone.

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#54810

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-17 13:26 -0700
Message-ID	<pl7b0s$pao$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54809

On 8/17/2018 11:42 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <pl72if$1n9$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>>>> I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
>>>> complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV
>>>> thing...
>> 
>>> it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the
>>> box
>> 
>> One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
> 
> most people use the headphones in the box

MOST people? So you surveyed how many millions of Apple users then? My
GUESS is that MOST people are like my wife and don't use the included
headphones at all.

> (or they use the speakers built into the phone)

Course. Everyone uses the built in phone speakers for Facebook etc, even
me. But for listening to quality music (local or streaming) the speakers
suck.

> there are also numerous third party headphones.

Perhaps. But my local stores carry STANDARD headphones in droves whereas
the Apple aisle has only one or two.

>>> as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
>> 
>> Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.
> 
> nothing dangles, other than the wires that normally would.

Yeah, the dongle really does dangle. AGAIN YMMV.

>>> it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
>> 
>> Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks.
>> YMMV.
> 
> no hassles and no bulk, nor any dangling wires to get caught on 
> anything.

Agreed the wires can be a pain. But the battery IMO is a bigger pain.
And the Bluetooth headphones I've tried can't produce the volume I like.
Simpler is often better.

> some even fit entirely in the ear, which is as bulk-free as it gets:

Unfortunately the tiny Bluetooth models I've tried sacrifice battery
life and are volume starved.

> analog headphone jacks are obsolete.

Obsolete? Maybe someday. But as long as millions of phones currently
have them, not so much. We had this discussion over 2 years ago. So far
your prediction of the death of the audio hole has been greatly
exaggerated...

> there are currently a *lot* of android phones with usb-c headphone 
> jacks, including the google pixel, considered to be 'pure android',

PURE Android? Is that like PURE Linux?

> the essential phone from andy rubin, who created android, as well as 
> several other major device makers, including motorola...

Glad my Motorola phone is still holy (hole-ee, get it? Sorry.)

> At this stage in the game, that's hardly a surprise. Most smartphone 
> makers are ditching the traditional headphone jack to make phones 
> thinner and to embrace the wireless-headphones revolution. Even 
> Google, which poked fun at Apple last year for removing the
> headphone jack, got rid of it on this year's Pixel 2.

Whatever sells the most cells (phones) will win.

> the Moto Z comes with a USB-C headphone adapter, which should
> convert the audio into analog so you can plug in the headphones you
> already have to listen to music or watch a movie or even talk on (or
> to) your phone.

While I will miss the audio hole I won't miss the micro-USB connector.
It will be nice to plug a cable in and get it right on the first try.
Fortunately that's not a big problem on my Motorola phone with its
wireless charging and easy-to-plug-in audio jack (no dongle needed)...

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#54816

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-08-17 17:31 -0400
Message-ID	<170820181731437823%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#54810

In article <pl7b0s$pao$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
wrote:

> > 
> >>>> I would miss a headphone jack. However the wife has yet to
> >>>> complain about her iPhone not having one. Guess it's a YMMV
> >>>> thing...
> >> 
> >>> it has a digital headphone jack and includes headphones in the
> >>> box
> >> 
> >> One size headphone fits all? No thanks. YMMV.
> > 
> > most people use the headphones in the box
> 
> MOST people? So you surveyed how many millions of Apple users then? My
> GUESS is that MOST people are like my wife and don't use the included
> headphones at all.

there are four groups of users, and not only apple:
- those who use the bundled headphones
- those who do not use any headphones (i.e., use the built in speakers)
- those who use bluetooth headphones
- those who use headphones they already own, generally high end, with a
    3.5mm plug.

only the last group is affected by the change, which is why an adapter
is included.

the other three groups are not affected at all. 

group 1 can use the bundled headphones. 
group 2 doesn't use any headphones.
group 3 only needs to pair their bluetooth headphones with the phone.

apple knows what the breakdown is.

> > (or they use the speakers built into the phone)
> 
> Course. Everyone uses the built in phone speakers for Facebook etc, even
> me. But for listening to quality music (local or streaming) the speakers
> suck.

they're not that bad, but again, no need for an analog jack since you
can pair with bluetooth speakers.

> > there are also numerous third party headphones.
> 
> Perhaps. But my local stores carry STANDARD headphones in droves whereas
> the Apple aisle has only one or two.

most of which are not as good as the ones bundled in the box.

or just order online.

meanwhile, bluetooth headphones are outselling wired headphones, and
these numbers are from *before* the iphone 7:
<https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/2016/bluetoot
h-capable-headphone-sales-surpass-non-bluetooth-sales/>
  While the headphone category saw a 7 percent year-over-year increase
  in dollar sales for the first half of 2016, Bluetooth headphones saw
  double-digit growth with a 42 percent year-over-year increase in
  dollar sales for the first half of the year.

> >>> as well as an adapter for legacy analog headphones.
> >> 
> >> Having a headphone dongle dangling? No thanks. YMMV.
> > 
> > nothing dangles, other than the wires that normally would.
> 
> Yeah, the dongle really does dangle. AGAIN YMMV.

it really doesn't. 

the adapter adds about 2 inches to the cable. it's not even noticeable.

> >>> it also fully supports all bluetooth headsets and headphones.
> >> 
> >> Bluetooth? More cost, battery charge hassle, and bulk. No thanks.
> >> YMMV.
> > 
> > no hassles and no bulk, nor any dangling wires to get caught on 
> > anything.
> 
> Agreed the wires can be a pain. But the battery IMO is a bigger pain.
> And the Bluetooth headphones I've tried can't produce the volume I like.
> Simpler is often better.

then you need to try more bluetooth headphones.

some have 5-8 hours runtime and recharge in their carrying case and are
as loud as wired headphones.

> > some even fit entirely in the ear, which is as bulk-free as it gets:
> 
> Unfortunately the tiny Bluetooth models I've tried sacrifice battery
> life and are volume starved.

then you need to try more bluetooth headphones.

> > analog headphone jacks are obsolete.
> 
> Obsolete? Maybe someday. But as long as millions of phones currently
> have them, not so much. We had this discussion over 2 years ago. So far
> your prediction of the death of the audio hole has been greatly
> exaggerated...

it's not going to change overnight but it's definitely changing.

> > there are currently a *lot* of android phones with usb-c headphone 
> > jacks, including the google pixel, considered to be 'pure android',
> 
> PURE Android? Is that like PURE Linux?

google pixel phones don't have the crapware that other makers add
(namely samsung) and more importantly, get android updates as soon as
google releases them. 

other makers take their sweet time, preferring to sell you a new phone
than update existing models. 

> > the essential phone from andy rubin, who created android, as well as 
> > several other major device makers, including motorola...
> 
> Glad my Motorola phone is still holy (hole-ee, get it? Sorry.)

for now...

> > At this stage in the game, that's hardly a surprise. Most smartphone 
> > makers are ditching the traditional headphone jack to make phones 
> > thinner and to embrace the wireless-headphones revolution. Even 
> > Google, which poked fun at Apple last year for removing the
> > headphone jack, got rid of it on this year's Pixel 2.
> 
> Whatever sells the most cells (phones) will win.

phones with digital headphone jacks are selling quite well.

people might bitch about it, but they buy them anyway and then realize
it ain't as bad as they thought.

> > the Moto Z comes with a USB-C headphone adapter, which should
> > convert the audio into analog so you can plug in the headphones you
> > already have to listen to music or watch a movie or even talk on (or
> > to) your phone.
> 
> While I will miss the audio hole I won't miss the micro-USB connector.
> It will be nice to plug a cable in and get it right on the first try.

yep, micro-usb sucks, especially micro-usb 3. 

usb-c is much better.

> Fortunately that's not a big problem on my Motorola phone with its
> wireless charging and easy-to-plug-in audio jack (no dongle needed)...

people complained about wireless charging not being as fast as wired
charging. now they insist on it being there and rarely use the usb port
to charge...

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#54818

From	Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>
Date	2018-08-17 23:13 +0000
Message-ID	<pl7krm$gvt$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#54816

On 17 Aug 2018 14:31:43 GMT, nospam wrote:

> only the last group is affected by the change, which is why an adapter
> is included.

You missed a huge group of Apple owners
- Those who "just give up" because the hardware isn't readily available

The point is that everyone who does anything in the real world is adversely
affected by the "courageous" lost functionality when they need to use a
headphone but where they can't use the speakers and where they haven't
taped an "emergency kit" to their backside just so that their iPhone works
when needed to.

In the fake world of the "walled garden", there's no issue with the
courageous loss of basic functionality on the newer iPhones. 

*In the real world, courageous headphone jacks are extremely useful.*

For example, you stop off at the library, and for whatever reason, you want
to listen to something for a while. You're dead if you own an iPhone.

*If you own an iPhone, you often simply "just give up" in the real world.*

At our local library, they'll lend or sell you a three-dollar set of
earphones, but if you have one of those lost-functionality courageous
devices, you simply "just give up" again (and again, and again).

*All day, every day, Apple iPhone users are forced to "just give up".*

Sure, you can carry an "emergency kit" with you everywhere you go - but
it's lost functionality no matter how you fall into the Apple MARKETING
trap of always purposefully raping the consumer under the guile & guise of
well advertised "courageous" lost functionality.

You, nospam, spit out Apple MARKETING shills daily, so you know it well.

Apple loves to *lock* the consumer into doing exactly what Apple wants the
consumer to do. Buying exqactly what Apple wants the customer to buy. Using
exactly the apps (like the iTunes abomination for example) Apple wants the
customer to use.

*Apple is extremely Orwellian and punishingly successful in doing so.*

The punishments are clear as time and again you hear the Apple user
complaining that they have to *"just give up"* on doing even the *simplest*
of things. Like Wade Garrett did last week, and, if we ever hear back from
Ant, like Ant likely did so. 

Apple isn't one of the most successful companies on the planet on
functionality - they get that money from the hapless consumers most of whom
likely who don't even comprehend that they don't have to just give up as
much as they are forced to do by Apple MARKETING decisions. 

(If you want to debate those ... just ask ... I can list a lot of basic
functionality that all other platforms have that iOS does not have.)

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#54823

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-17 21:16 -0700
Message-ID	<pl86io$je$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54816

On 8/17/2018 2:31 PM, nospam wrote:
> abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com> wrote:

> [Long group dissertation snipped] apple knows what the breakdown is.

They certainly do. At Target this afternoon I found two kinds of Apple
EarPods for sale. One with a Lightning connector and one with a STANDARD
connector. Apple ain't no fool...

>> my local stores carry STANDARD headphones in droves

> most of which are not as good as the ones bundled in the box.

Ah, there's that "MOST" word again. Besides surveying millions of Apple
users about what headphones they use, you also came and surveyed all the
headphones that are available in my local stores too??

> bluetooth headphones are outselling wired headphones,

A bit misleading since that's in DOLLAR sales. Wired headphones are
still numerically outselling Bluetooth headphones.

> While the headphone category saw a 7 percent year-over-year increase
>  in dollar sales for the first half of 2016, Bluetooth headphones saw
>  double-digit growth with a 42 percent year-over-year increase in 
> dollar sales for the first half of the year.

> some [Bluetooth headphones] have 5-8 hours runtime

Wired headphones have FOREVER run time.

> and recharge in their carrying case

Wired headphones require NO charger.

> and are as loud as wired headphones

That would depend on the phone's audio amp power output feeding the
wired headphones. In my case wired is louder.

> google pixel phones don't have the crapware that other makers add

Crapware on my phone was a pain for me for a few days at the start. But
after a little work it's not been a problem since. I certainly wouldn't
base a phone purchase on it. And the Pixel has had its own problems.

> people complained about wireless charging not being as fast as wired
>  charging.

I charge my phone overnight so wireless charging has never had any
issues for me. But if there's ever a problem I can always drag out the
Turbo charger that came with the phone and bring it up in 15 minutes...

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#54824

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-08-18 00:36 -0400
Message-ID	<180820180036276906%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#54823

In article <pl86io$je$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
wrote:

> > bluetooth headphones are outselling wired headphones,
> 
> A bit misleading since that's in DOLLAR sales. Wired headphones are
> still numerically outselling Bluetooth headphones.

only because there's a lot of cheap shit being sold which is worse than
what's bundled with the phone.

wireless is the future. it won't happen suddenly, but the trend is
*very* clear.

> > some [Bluetooth headphones] have 5-8 hours runtime
> 
> Wired headphones have FOREVER run time.

no they don't, because the battery in the phone won't last forever.

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#54825

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-17 22:19 -0700
Message-ID	<pl8a9k$h12$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54824

On 8/17/2018 9:36 PM, nospam wrote:
> abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com> wrote:

>>> bluetooth headphones are outselling wired headphones,

>> A bit misleading since that's in DOLLAR sales. Wired headphones are
>> still numerically outselling Bluetooth headphones.

> only because there's a lot of cheap shit being sold which is worse 
> than what's bundled with the phone.

Damn. It's the cheap shit's fault!! Without it your statement wouldn't
have been misleading...

>> Wired headphones have FOREVER run time.

> no they don't, because the battery in the phone won't last forever.

That argument is a hoot. It's like saying wired headphones don't have
forever run time because I can't keep them on my head forever...

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#54826

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2018-08-18 19:00 +1200
Message-ID	<pl8g6g$1ahs$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#54823

On 2018-08-18 04:16:24 +0000, abcdef said:
> On 8/17/2018 2:31 PM, nospam wrote:
>> abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com> wrote:
> 
>> [Long group dissertation snipped] apple knows what the breakdown is.
> 
> They certainly do. At Target this afternoon I found two kinds of Apple
> EarPods for sale. One with a Lightning connector and one with a STANDARD
> connector. Apple ain't no fool...

The standard headphone jack versions still exist for those with older 
devices, but they will be dropped when all the older devices with that 
socket have been added to Apple's "obsolete" list.

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#54832

From	Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>
Date	2018-08-18 10:12 +0000
Message-ID	<pl8rdp$kin$8@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#54826

On 18 Aug 2018 00:00:33 GMT, Your Name wrote:

> The standard headphone jack versions still exist for those with older 
> devices, but they will be dropped when all the older devices with that 
> socket have been added to Apple's "obsolete" list.

The fact is that Apple doesn't care jack shit about their customers.

Apple wants to extort as much money as they can out of their customers.

Apple Marketing decided that by removing functionality, they can extort
more money out of their customers.

It's really that simple - which is why all of nospam's arguments fall flat
as illogical.

Besides, it's nothing new ... EVERYTHING Apple does is to extort money out
of their customers (e.g., slow down phones secretly without telling their
own support people, eliminate second sources for apps, remove compete ting
apps, etc.).

I don't blame Apple for extorting as much money as they can out of their
customers.  I blame their customers.

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#54834

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-18 08:13 -0700
Message-ID	<pl9d36$9nl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54826

On 8/18/2018 12:00 AM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2018-08-18 04:16:24 +0000, abcdef said:

>> At Target this afternoon I found two kinds of Apple EarPods for
>> sale. One with a Lightning connector and one with a STANDARD 
>> connector.

> The standard headphone jack versions still exist for those with older
>  devices,

If you mean OLDER APPLE devices I would point out that some NEW Apple
devices still come with a headphone jack such as my wife's iPad Pro
purchased in January.

If you mean ALL OLDER devices I would point out that ALL the NON-APPLE
tablets sold in my local big box stores HAVE headphone jacks.

So IMO the market for wired headphones has a little life left... ;)

> but they will be dropped when all the older devices with that socket
> have been added to Apple's "obsolete" list.

I agree that Apple is likely drop the headphone jack soon if not already
in its upcoming models. But perhaps for the lower classes the other
manufacturers may hang in there awhile longer...

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#54835

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2018-08-18 11:58 -0400
Message-ID	<180820181158006303%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#54834

In article <pl9d36$9nl$1@dont-email.me>, abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
wrote:

> > The standard headphone jack versions still exist for those with older
> >  devices,
> 
> If you mean OLDER APPLE devices I would point out that some NEW Apple
> devices still come with a headphone jack such as my wife's iPad Pro
> purchased in January.

ipads (and macs) have a different use case than phones, plus there's
also a *lot* more internal space. 

the analog headphone jack was removed on the iphone because space is
*extremely* limited in a phone and that space could be better used for
other purposes. not including it also makes it easier to seal the phone
from moisture and dirt incursion.

it's very likely that the next wave of ipads will no longer have an
analog headphone jack, particularly since they are expected to have
smaller bezels.

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#54836

From	abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com>
Date	2018-08-18 10:09 -0700
Message-ID	<pl9jsh$jvc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#54835

On 8/18/2018 8:58 AM, nospam wrote:
> abcdef <abcdef@abcdef.com> wrote:

>> some NEW Apple devices still come with a headphone jack such as my 
>> wife's iPad Pro purchased in January.

> ipads (and macs) have a different use case than phones

What (audio) difference? Watching a movie on the iPad, listening to
music on the phone, it's all basically audio. Your Bluetooth arguments
don't apply to tablets also?

> the analog headphone jack was removed on the iphone because space is
>  *extremely* limited in a phone and that space could be better used 
> for other purposes.

A nice theory but I doubt you have a clue as to what was added to the
missing headphone jack space. I think your wired headphone = old
technology argument held more water.

> not including it also makes it easier to seal the phone from
> moisture and dirt incursion.

A past phone of mine (HTC) was WATERPROOF to 10'. It had a headphone jack.

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csiph-web

Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?

Contents

#54790 — Is Apple acknowledging that many users want an active stylus on their phones?

#54791

#54793

#54796

#54797

#54805

#54807

#54808

#54809

#54810

#54816

#54818

#54823

#54824

#54825

#54826

#54832

#54834

#54835

#54836