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Re: What I learned today

From Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.javascript
Subject Re: What I learned today
Date 2017-01-05 18:10 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o4m25q$omd$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <XnsA6F36CC7B8A1Ceejj99@194.109.6.166> <48dq6ctt3kf3p49slepna386aq8dgl81n3@4ax.com> <XnsA6F3C38A587FEeejj99@194.109.6.166> <o4k6j7$ls5$1@dont-email.me> <utus6c5fapmnnhn6j5ht3nb5jo6qsl90bt@4ax.com>

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Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> Scott Sauyet wrote:
>> Evertjan. wrote:
>>> Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>
>>>>      Given the choice between two sources of material, both
>>>> technically very good, but one is written in clear language and the
>>>> other is written very unclearly, I would select the clear one.
>>> 
>>> An argument is not [just] a source of material, as sources of material
>>> are not part of a discussion.
>>
>> Again, I have no idea if I need to make allowances for someone who is
>> not a native speaker, but the point Mr. Wirchenko is making is simple:
>> he has to decide, given his limited time, which of the myriad resources
>> available to him he finds worthwhile.  If he does not find Thomas 
>> Lahn's posts to be worth his time, I see no reason at all for you to 
>> complain.
> 
>      No, I am a native speaker of English.  Nonetheless, there are
> ways to present information so that it is clear, and there are ways to
> obfuscate it horribly (whether intentionally or not).

(The allowance would have been for Evertjan, who is clearly not a native 
speaker.  It's hard to know sometimes when a disagreement is simply a 
misunderstanding of idiom or is something deeper.)

Of course below is my demonstration of the fact that obfuscated material 
may not be worth anyone's time.


>>> [... earlier ...]
>>> Arguments should be valued on their content, being an evaluation of
>>> evidence and logic, not on skills of rethoric, of writing or of
>>> display.
> 
>      This totally misses that if the argument is sufficiently badly
> presented, it might never get seen.
> 
>>I believe the following argument should clear things up immensely:
>>
>>01010011 01000111 01000110 01110000 01100100 00110010 01010110 00110110
>>01011010 01010111 01110100 01101000 01100010 01101101 01101011 01100111
>>01011010 01101101 00111001 01110100 01100100 01010011 01000010 00110000
>>01100010 00110010 01011010 01101000 01100100 01011000 01010010 01110000
>>01001001 01000111 00110101 01101000 01001001 01000111 00110001 01101000
>>01100100 01010111 01010010 01101111 01100100 01010111 01101011 00111101
> 
>      This is unintelligible.  It requires another step in order to be
> able to follow it.  That time could be used otherwise.
> 
>      I decided to play along with the joke, but the above is not
> binary representation of ASCII.  I do not think that it is binary
> representation of EBCDIC.  At this point, I would skip.
> 
>      Decoded, it might have some very useful information, but I have
> no way of knowing, and I have other uses for my time.
> 
>      Evertjan, how much time will *you* spend on it?

I said simply that "It is impossible to separate form and content", used 
Google Translate to get a Swahili version, "Haiwezekani fomu tofauti na 
maudhui", base64 encoded that, and presented the result as bytes 
displayed in base 2.  

If only the content matters, the version I presented should be just as 
worthwhile as if I had simply said "It is impossible to separate form and 
content," in a single line of English.  That such is manifestly absurd 
was the point I was making.

  -- Scott

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Thread

Re: What I learned today Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-29 04:32 +0100
  Re: What I learned today Maik Koenig <usenetspam@maikkoenig.de> - 2016-12-29 21:20 +0100
    Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2016-12-29 21:45 +0100
      Re: What I learned today Maik Koenig <usenetspam@maikkoenig.de> - 2017-01-04 03:52 +0100
        Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 10:48 +0100
          Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-04 09:45 -0800
            Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 19:10 +0100
    Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-30 19:12 +1100
      Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-30 09:30 -0800
        Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2016-12-31 00:39 +0100
          Re: What I learned today David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 07:35 -0800
          Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-02 09:34 -0800
            Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-02 23:41 +0100
              Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-02 23:24 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-03 15:58 +1100
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-03 11:44 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-04 04:15 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 10:59 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 10:29 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-03 19:50 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-03 19:32 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-03 21:52 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2017-01-03 21:07 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-03 23:42 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-01-03 22:45 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 00:06 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 17:00 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 10:41 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-04 09:51 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 19:13 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-01-04 18:17 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-05 00:30 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-05 01:13 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 13:20 +1100
                Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-05 17:57 +0000
                Multi-line string literals (was: What I learned today) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-01-05 23:29 +0100
                Re: Multi-line string literals (was: What I learned today) Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-05 23:14 +0000
                Re: Multi-line string literals Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-06 12:01 +1100
                Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 15:22 +1100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-05 09:06 -0800
                Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-05 18:10 +0000
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-05 20:38 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-05 22:37 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-01-05 23:21 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-06 00:29 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-06 11:59 +1100
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-06 09:04 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-06 11:19 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-06 13:09 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-01-06 12:50 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-06 14:16 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-06 15:05 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 16:32 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2017-01-06 16:15 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 17:47 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-01-06 18:07 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-07 18:38 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-09 10:33 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-09 19:57 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 16:53 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 10:36 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-04 09:53 -0800
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 19:17 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2017-01-05 00:57 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-05 09:49 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-04 16:49 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 18:01 +0100
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-05 20:19 +0000
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-05 22:22 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 16:48 -0800
              Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-02 23:24 +0000
                Re: What I learned today David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 00:17 -0800
                Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-03 10:33 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2017-01-04 04:34 +0000
                Re: What I learned today Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 16:15 +1100
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 11:12 +0100
                Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-04 11:07 +0100
                Re: What I learned today Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-01-04 09:58 -0800
      Re: What I learned today John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2017-01-01 10:53 +0000
        Re: What I learned today "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-01-01 12:36 +0100

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