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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #32803

Re: questions re Javascript

From Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: questions re Javascript
Date 2015-10-05 20:53 -0400
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <muv61f$71t$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <mu21gr$pln$1@dont-email.me> <e471dedf-9fa6-474c-9748-908c4ad85f47@googlegroups.com> <mump1n$8us$1@dont-email.me> <mungfe$jea$2@speranza.aioe.org> <muohko$ek6$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/3/2015 8:30 AM, Eternal Hope wrote:
> On 03/10/2015 04:02, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 10/2/2015 4:24 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 10/2/2015 4:02 PM, Lew wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 4:40:21 PM UTC-7, Jerry Stuckle
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> So bytecode is interpreted. Bytecode is not Java, in case you
>>>>>> hadn't noticed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, in case you haven't noticed - Java Bytecode IS Java - as
>>>>> opposed to
>>>>> bytecode in other languages.
>>>>
>>>> Bytecode is not Java. The specs are different. The rules are
>>>> different. languages other than
>>  >> Java compile (!) into bytecode.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And how are the rules and specs different?  And what do other languages
>>> have to do with it?
>>
>> JVM specs allow constructs in its byte code that are not allowed in
>> the Java language.
>>
>> And such constructs are used in other languages that do compile to
>> byte code.
>>
>>>> So Java bytecode is bytecode in other languages (Python, Scala,
>>>> JavaScript, ...).
>>>
>>> OK, if bytecode is bytecode, then I can execute Java bytecode with a
>>> Python interpreter, and vice versa.
>>>
>>> I don't think so!
>>
>> A Python interpreter process Python code not byte code.
>>
>> But Jython (Java Python) can compile Python to byte code.
>
> Ah Ha, here we have incontrovertible proof that java is an interpreted
> language.

I don't think the fact that Python can be compiled to byte code indicate
that Java is interpreted.

> The interface to the runtime environment accepts Java bytecode. If it
> ain't Java bytecode it ain't getting into the runtime environemnt.
>
> You can write Java source code in the Java programming language, pass
> the code to a compiler that accepts Java source and emits Java Bytecode.
>
> Apparently, you can write Ptyhon code and pass it to a compiler that
> accepts Python source and emits Java Bytecode.

Yes.

pythonc is part of Jython.

> I'm pretty sure that somewhere on this representation of reality we call
> Planet Earth there is a tool that allows you to write Java Bytecode
> directly, rather like when you write assembler in fact. No compiler
> required.

Yes.

http://jasmin.sourceforge.net/

https://github.com/Storyyeller/Krakatau

> What is similar about all these scenarios is that they seem to indicate
> that "technically" 'Java' is actually the Bytecode.
>
> Anything else is just a way for human beings to write their abstractions
> down in a way that a particular compiler can use to create the one thing
> that is absolutely needed if you want to take advantage of a Java
> Runtime Environment.

I don't like the term Java without any qualification. There is Java
language, Java Virtual Machine, Java API etc..

But the notion that Java language is just a readable version of
JVM byte code is not true.

As I wrote above:

 >> JVM specs allow constructs in its byte code that are not allowed in
 >> the Java language.

You can not always convert from byte code to Java source code. Obviously
you can if the code is generated from Java by the Java compiler. But
not necessarily if it is compiled from another language. And also
not if the byte code has been obfuscated by one of the obfuscators
that deliberately change the byte code to something that are not
valid in the Java language.

> Java Bytecode which is *interpreted* by the Runtime Environment.

Actually it would typically be JIT compiled by the JVM.

Arne

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Thread

questions re Javascript rdelaney2001@gmail.com - 2015-09-01 15:26 -0700
  Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-01 23:26 +0000
    Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 10:00 +0100
      Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-02 05:32 -0700
        Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:17 -0400
          Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-04 05:33 -0700
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:42 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-01 20:00 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:40 +0100
    Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-23 16:10 -0700
      Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 10:40 +0100
        Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-24 11:21 +0000
          Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 20:10 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 13:18 -0700
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:40 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 01:15 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:25 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:46 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 09:59 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 15:32 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:02 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-02 16:24 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 23:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:30 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 21:31 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 07:48 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 20:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:00 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:19 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:26 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 15:32 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-24 16:58 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-24 21:45 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 18:27 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:34 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 09:56 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-25 10:15 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 11:44 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:09 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 15:15 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:45 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:48 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-28 03:29 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-28 00:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-28 11:33 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-28 10:44 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:42 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:51 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:38 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:59 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:47 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:48 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:52 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:25 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:41 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 22:11 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:19 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 22:27 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 22:30 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:42 -0400
                Re: Aho, A. V., & Ullman, J. D. (1972). The theory of parsing, translation, and compiling. Englewood Cliffs, N.J: Prentice-Hall. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 23:26 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:07 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 23:55 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-25 05:20 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:54 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 23:05 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:36 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:57 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:10 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:27 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 23:19 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:46 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:35 -0400
        Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 13:10 -0700
          Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:55 -0400
            Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 00:48 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 20:55 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 11:17 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 12:30 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:00 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:14 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 19:59 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:13 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 22:15 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:07 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:48 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:32 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:45 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:13 -0400
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 21:58 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:34 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:35 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:51 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:00 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:17 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Tim Slattery <tim@risingdove.com> - 2015-09-24 12:04 -0400

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