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Re: questions re Javascript

From Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: questions re Javascript
Date 2015-09-24 19:53 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mu22an$scg$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <83722e36-4afe-4077-b936-229450613698@googlegroups.com> <mu0g9p$ljt$1@dont-email.me> <mu0mbs$ak9$1@dont-email.me> <mu1hnf$sq8$1@dont-email.me> <mu1o2i$ljj$1@dont-email.me>

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On 9/24/2015 4:58 PM, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 9/24/2015 3:10 PM, Eternal Hope wrote:
>>
>> Well when I went to school (jeez, was it *that* long ago) a compiled
>> language was one where the compiler took source code as input and
>> produced native machine code that was directly executable on the
>> underlying hardware as output.
> 
>     In -- let's see, 2015 minus 1966 that's forty-nine years --
> of writing computer programs for many machines in many languages,
> I have encountered only two compilers of that description.  (Most
> folks would have called them "assemblers" rather than "compilers,"
> but an assembler is just a compiler for a particularly low-level
> source language.)  All the other compilers I've met have produced
> some kind of intermediate output that required further processing --
> "linking" or "loading" at the very least -- before execution.
> 

You're about two years ahead of me.  I only have 47 years or so of
experience.  And I know this post is going to get me into trouble with some.

But I've run into multiple compilers which meet that description -
starting with the FORTRAN II compiler when I started, to COBOL and PL/I
compilers when I was working at IBM (not to add PL/S, which was an
interesting internal language), to PASCAL, Smalltalk, C, C++ and many
other compilers.  And this was under multiple operating systems.

Yes, all of them produced "object code" - but that was simply executable
code without necessary libraries.  You had to link the compiler
libraries - but this only produced linkages between the machine code
generated by the compiler with the machine code in the libraries.  It
did not change the compiled output, other than to fill in pointers.  The
step also creates the executable.

Even assembler language programs which require no external libraries
require linking, just to put them into executable format.

>     Nearly that long ago I encountered my first microcoded machine.
> Riddle me this: If compiling/linking/loading fills such a machine's
> memory with instructions and starts them running, are they "native"
> or are they just being interpreted by the microcode?
> 

If the resultant code is machine code, they are native.  Microcode is
internal to the chip and not part of the consideration.

>     Also, at about that time I ran into my first emulator: It ran
> on an IBM S/360 and impersonated an IBM 1620.  What does this do
> to your definition of "compiler?"  Does the 1620's compiler cease
> to be a compiler if its output is run on the emulator instead of
> on the 1620 hardware?  And if you then run it on the 1620 again,
> does the non-compiler regain its former compilerhood?
> 

Yes, it is still a compiled language.  If it's running on a foreign
machine, the machine is emulating the original machine.  That does not
change the fact it is compiled.

>     The distinction between "compiler" and "interpreter" has been
> blurred over the years, as layers of abstraction have grown deeper
> and as the underlying hardware has gotten ever more "under" with
> each technology generation.  Nowadays, it's turtles all the way down.
> 

It has only been blurred by Java noobs who don't know or understand the
difference.  But I've found that to be common amongst people who have
never programmed anything but Java.  They think Java is the answer to
the life, the universe and everything - and nothing else counts.

Those of use who have programmed otherwise in multiple languages on
multiple hardware platforms and multiple operating systems understand
better.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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Thread

questions re Javascript rdelaney2001@gmail.com - 2015-09-01 15:26 -0700
  Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-01 23:26 +0000
    Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 10:00 +0100
      Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-02 05:32 -0700
        Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:17 -0400
          Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-04 05:33 -0700
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:42 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-01 20:00 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 20:40 +0100
    Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-23 16:10 -0700
      Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 10:40 +0100
        Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-24 11:21 +0000
          Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 20:10 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 13:18 -0700
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:40 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 01:15 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:25 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:46 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 09:59 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 15:32 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:02 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-02 16:24 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 23:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:30 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 21:31 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 07:48 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 20:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:00 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:19 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:26 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 15:32 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-24 16:58 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-24 21:45 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 18:27 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:34 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 09:56 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-25 10:15 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 11:44 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:09 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 15:15 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:45 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:48 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-28 03:29 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-28 00:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-28 11:33 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-28 10:44 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:42 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:51 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:38 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 22:59 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:47 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:48 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:53 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:52 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:25 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:41 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 22:11 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 22:19 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 22:27 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 22:30 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:42 -0400
                Re: Aho, A. V., & Ullman, J. D. (1972). The theory of parsing, translation, and compiling. Englewood Cliffs, N.J: Prentice-Hall. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 23:26 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:07 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-24 23:55 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:46 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-25 05:20 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-27 20:54 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 23:05 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-02 22:36 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-03 10:57 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-10-05 21:10 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-10-05 21:27 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-27 23:19 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:46 +0100
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:35 -0400
        Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 13:10 -0700
          Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 19:55 -0400
            Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 00:48 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 20:55 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 11:17 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 12:30 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:00 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:03 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 14:14 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 19:59 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:13 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 22:15 +0000
                Re: questions re Javascript Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:07 -0700
                Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:48 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:02 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-25 17:32 +0000
              Re: questions re Javascript Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 03:45 +0100
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:13 -0400
            Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 21:58 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:34 -0400
              Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-24 22:35 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 22:51 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-24 23:00 -0400
                Re: questions re Javascript Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-25 10:17 -0400
  Re: questions re Javascript Tim Slattery <tim@risingdove.com> - 2015-09-24 12:04 -0400

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