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Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy

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  Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy <anon@anon.com> - 2019-02-06 03:52 +0000
    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-05 23:25 -0500
      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 08:45 +0000
        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-06 10:43 -0500
          Re: PureOS and Librem laptops <anon@anon.com> - 2019-02-07 22:39 +0000
            Re: PureOS and Librem laptops nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-07 22:47 -0500
        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-06 16:24 +0000
          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-07 21:43 +0100
            Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-02-07 22:56 +0000
              Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-07 23:42 +0000
                Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 07:52 +0000
                  Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-02-08 13:13 +0100
                  Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-08 18:53 +0000
                    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2019-02-08 11:03 -0800
                    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-08 21:27 +0000
                      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 16:23 +0000
                        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 17:28 +0000
                          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Anonymous <anonymous@hoi-polloi.org> - 2019-02-09 19:01 +0100
                          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 18:25 +0000
                            Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 18:43 +0000
                              Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 19:53 +0000
                                Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2019-02-10 08:38 -0800
                  Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-08 21:22 +0000
                    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-02-09 15:03 +0000
                      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 17:18 +0000
                        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 17:40 +0000
                          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 18:13 +0000
                        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 22:51 +0000
                    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 17:24 +0000
                      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 17:38 +0000
                        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 17:53 +0000
                          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-09 18:09 +0000
                            Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2019-02-09 20:12 +0000
                            Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-02-09 23:34 +0100
                          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-02-10 00:55 +0100
                      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> - 2019-02-09 18:57 +0100
            Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-07 23:40 +0000
              Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-08 06:51 +0100
          Re: PureOS and Librem laptops <anon@anon.com> - 2019-02-07 22:29 +0000
            Re: PureOS and Librem laptops William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-07 23:46 +0000
            Re: PureOS and Librem laptops nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-07 22:47 -0500
    Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-06 04:39 +0000
      PureOS and Librem laptops <anon@anon.com> - 2019-02-06 06:23 +0000
        Re: PureOS and Librem laptops "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-02-06 07:56 -0600
          Re: PureOS and Librem laptops <anon@anon.com> - 2019-02-07 22:25 +0000
          Re: PureOS and Librem laptops Mitch <m.mac@mixnym.net> - 2019-02-08 14:53 +0800
            Re: PureOS and Librem laptops "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-02-08 08:15 -0600
              Re: PureOS and Librem laptops Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-02-16 13:16 +0100
                Re: PureOS and Librem laptops Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-16 12:34 -0500
      Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Pedro Valdez <pedro1492@lycos.com> - 2019-02-06 03:15 -0800
        Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-02-06 08:07 -0800
          Re: Linux-based smartphone focused on privacy Johnny <johnny@invalid.net> - 2019-02-07 14:03 -0600

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#53717

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> >> On 2019-02-08, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> >> >> > On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>,
> >> >> >> >>>>>> <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>>> 
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> to buy one?
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >> >> >>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> >> >> >> >>>>>> 
> >> >> >> >>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> >> >> >> >>>>>> false claims.
> >> >> >> >>>>> 
> >> >> >> >>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> >> >> >> >>>>> good to go.
> >> >> >> >>>> 
> >> >> >> >>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the
> >> >> >> >>>> frequency/type band that the carrier operates on.
> >> >> >> >>> 
> >> >> >> >>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the
> >> >> >> >>> whole nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so
> >> >> >> >>> there is little need for traditional carrier support.
> >> >> >> >>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would
> >> >> >> >>> help.
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on
> >> >> >> >> any network.
> >> >> >> >> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to
> >> >> >> > everyone, and so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go
> >> >> >> > to Spain or Maroco, or USA and find your phone is as useful as
> >> >> >> > brick. 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> >> >> >> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, of late, Mr.Unruh has uttered some ... hmmm ... 'special'
> >> >> > opinions, so we probably shouldn't pay too much attention to this
> >> >> > uninformed rant either, especially considering his other/further
> >> >> > uninformed/misinformed responses in this thread.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Note to self: Must remind myself that - according to Mr.Unruh - my phone
> >> >> > does *not* work all over Europe, the US, Australia, Singapore, etc..
> >> >> > Likewise, I shouldn't accept any mobile calls from someone in the US,
> >> >> > pretending to be my son.
> >> >> 
> >> >> I never said that.
> >> >
> >> >   What you said - and what Chris and I responded to - is this uninformed
> >> > rant:
> >> >
> >> > [Rewind/repeat:]
> >> >
> >> >> >> > a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to
> >> >> >> > everyone, and so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go
> >> >> >> > to Spain or Maroco, or USA and find your phone is as useful as
> >> >> >> > brick. 
> >> >
> >> >   That's non-sense (except for the US bit, if you're an *uninformed*
> >> > customer).
> >> 
> >> Ah, so you agree that a phone purchased in the UK may not work all
> >> around the world? THAT was my point. I agree that spain, and maybe
> >> Morocco (You should have pointed out my misspelling of that as well)
> >
> >   Of course I 'agree'! I never said anything which implies otherwise.
> >
> >   I also note that you now say "may" (not work at all), which is quite
> > different from your earlier "and find your phone is as useful as brick",
> > which implies *will* (not work).
> 
> And if you would quote the whole sentence, it is clear I did NOT say
> that you would always find your phone is as useful as a brick. I also
> stated that some phones do cover the bands. 

  Please stop the back-pedaling. That you *later* changed your position,
does not change what your *original* comment *actually* *said*.

  So here it's again, now for the *third* time:

[Rewind/repeat:]

> >> >> >> > a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to
> >> >> >> > everyone, and so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go
> >> >> >> > to Spain or Maroco, or USA and find your phone is as useful as
> >> >> >> > brick. 

  See? No indication that *some* phones *might* work!

  Can we please agree that your initial comment was incorrect or badly
worded or whatever?

> >> >>                   What I said was that your phone must have support for
> >> >> the bands in use or it does not work.
> >> >
> >> >   Yes, your other responses were a bit better, but still had way too
> >> > much FUD, incorrect terminology (GSM3, GSM4, GSM5), etc..
> >> 
> >> I agree. When I posted my mind could not dredge up the correct
> >> terminology, and for that I appologise. 
> >> 
> >> >>                                      There are about 40 bands around
> >> >> the world for 3G and 4G, and most phones do NOT cover them all.
> >> >
> >> >   LTE ('4G') indeed has many bands, but you can easily get a phone which
> >> > covers most if not all UMTS ('3G') bands. For most people, for
> >> > traveling, 3G is fine.
> >> 
> >> So you agree that many phones do not cover al of the 3G bands or 4G (
> >> and many cheap phones do not even cover all the 2G bands). 
> >
> >   Again, I've never said or implied otherwise.
> >
> >> So the question which I originally asked-- what bands does this phone
> >> cover?
> >
> >   Yes, that was and is a very legit and relevant question.
> >
> >> >>                                                                For 2G
> >> >> it was much better, as there were only  4 bands, but even there you had
> >> >> to make sure you got an "international" phone which covered all 4. (many
> >> >> only covered 2, and either worked in the UK or in the US but not both)
> >> >> Unfotunately 2G is being phased out. Many of the US companies have
> >> >> already done so. 
> >> >
> >> >   Most informed people had no problem getting the right 2G phone for
> >> > traveling.
> >> 
> >> So you agree that one must both know about it and search.
> >
> >   Yup, like I said: You've to prepare for travel between totally different
> > geographical areas. Duh!
> >
> >>                                                          Note that 2G
> >> is being phased out, as the bandwidth is needed for 4G and 5G.
> >
> >   Not that it really matters in this discussion, but because different
> > areas use different bands (What *was this discussion about again!? :-)),
> > the 'need for bandwidth' issue is also different for different areas, so
> > the "as the bandwidth is needed for 4G and 5G" argument is not valid
> > worldwide.
> >
> >> >   But I guess many people with smartphones are not so smart themselves,
> >> > so they run into all kind of trouble when traveling unprepared. Getting
> >> > a correct/comptible phone is no different than all the other
> >> > travel-related aspects, such as power, plugs, currency, travel
> >> > documents, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
> >> 
> >> Ah again you agree that it is not "most phones" that work all over
> >> the world. Few phones ( and those that do tend to be the expensive
> >> ones) work all over the world. 
> >
> >   Nobody ever said that most phones work all over the world, but with
> > some planning, it's quite possible to buy a phone - also an inexpensive
> > one (mine was (the equivalent of) some 80USD) - which works in *most*
> > of the world. Where "works" means you can make/receive (mbile phone)
> > calls (After all, we're talking about a *phone*, right! :-)), send and
> > receive SMS messages and use 3G *or* 4G Internet.
> 
> Of course it is possible and nothing I ever said disputed that. It is
> also possible to buy a phone which is a "useful as a brick" when you
> travel with it. And figuring out which is which is not easy. First you
> have to discover what bands the phone you want covers. Then you have to
> figure out what bands are actually used in the country you go to, and if
> there is an overlap between your phone and those bands. And you have to
> figure out which providers cover those bands that do overlap and whether
> you can get a sim from those providers which works. It is far from an
> easy task. 

  Here we fully agree! It's not an easy task at all and it's very hard
to get the information you need to make a decision what (not) to buy.

  The manufacturers and sellers can't be bothered to provide this vital
information and even if you *have* a device, it and its documentation
while nearly always fail to provide you with the neccessary information.

> In 2G days, it was just "Europe or America (or both)" or, if the US
> provider used cdma, forget it. Now with the proliferation of bands, it
> has become far more difficult to figure out.  If you bring a 2G only
> phone to the US, it IS as useful as a brick. 
> >
> >   For those people who 'must have' 4G Internet, they indeed will have to
> > buy a rather expensive smartphone or use other means to access the
> > Internet (for example buy a 'local' cheap mobile hotspot).

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#53724

On 2/9/19   PDT 11:53 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-02-08, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>    For those people who 'must have' 4G Internet, they indeed will have to
>>> buy a rather expensive smartphone or use other means to access the
>>> Internet (for example buy a 'local' cheap mobile hotspot).

Too many groups.

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#53695

On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>>>> 
>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
>>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
>>>> need for traditional carrier support.
>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>>> 
>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>> 
>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>
> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>
That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
have trouble if you use it outside of its country.

And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
work on ATT in the US, but not very well)

In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53702

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
>>>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
>>>>> need for traditional carrier support.
>>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>>>> 
>>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>>> 
>>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>> 
>> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
>> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>> 
> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
> world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
> 
> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
> 
> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 

None of the above has anything to do with carrier support of a particular
phone. Which is the original claim i responded to. 

Sure a phone will only work with networks that have bands that it supports
yet most phones cover most bands. Which is sufficient for going to the
majority of countries. If you have very specific needs then you need to be
a little more careful with your choice of phone. 

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#53704

On 2019-02-09, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
>>>>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
>>>>>> need for traditional carrier support.
>>>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>>>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>>>> 
>>>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>>>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>>>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>>> 
>>> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
>>> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>>> 
>> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
>> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
>> world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
>> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
>> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
>> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
>> 
>> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
>> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
>> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
>> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
>> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
>> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>> 
>> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
>> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
>
> None of the above has anything to do with carrier support of a particular
> phone. Which is the original claim i responded to. 
>
> Sure a phone will only work with networks that have bands that it supports
> yet most phones cover most bands. Which is sufficient for going to the

Sorry, this is not correct. Most phones do NOT cover most bands. Must
phones sold in country X cover most bands in use in country X. But look
at the band coverage of some cheaper phones and you will discover that
they do not cover most bands. Also manufacturers purposely limit the
bands so that you cannot buy an Indian phone in the US (or a US phone in
India) and expect it to work. Expensive ($1000) phone do cover most
bands around the world, but I raised the issue with respect to the phone
this thread is all about because they do not tell us what bands it
covers/will cover. 

As I pointed out, my Huawei Y6 smartphone  purchased in Europe does not
cover many of the 4G bands in the US. and one purchased in Canda does not 
cover many of the bands in Europe. You may have been lucky if yours did,
or you bought and expensive phone. 
 Additionally, phone companies and countries keep coming up with new
 bands to auction off. If this phone were one that covered all bands,
 and could adapt itself to new bands when they come up, it would be
 great. THAT could be a selling point. But Blackberry vs Apple is an
 example where security lost out to sexyness.
 
> majority of countries. If you have very specific needs then you need to be
> a little more careful with your choice of phone. 

You mean like wanting to use your phone in the US when you bought it in
Europe? Is that a specific need?

>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53708

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-09, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning
> >>>>>>>>>> to buy one?
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> >>>>>>>>> false claims.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> >>>>>>>> good to go.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
> >>>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the
> >>>>>> whole nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so
> >>>>>> there is little need for traditional carrier support.
> >>>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
> >>>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
> >>>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
> >>>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
> >>> 
> >>> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> >>> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
> >>> 
> >> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
> >> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
> >> world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
> >> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
> >> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
> >> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
> >> 
> >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
> >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
> >> 
> >> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> >> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
> >
> > None of the above has anything to do with carrier support of a particular
> > phone. Which is the original claim i responded to. 
> >
> > Sure a phone will only work with networks that have bands that it supports
> > yet most phones cover most bands. Which is sufficient for going to the
> 
> Sorry, this is not correct. Most phones do NOT cover most bands. Must
> phones sold in country X cover most bands in use in country X. But look
> at the band coverage of some cheaper phones and you will discover that
> they do not cover most bands. Also manufacturers purposely limit the
> bands so that you cannot buy an Indian phone in the US (or a US phone in
> India) and expect it to work. Expensive ($1000) phone do cover most
> bands around the world, but I raised the issue with respect to the phone
> this thread is all about because they do not tell us what bands it
> covers/will cover. 
> 
> As I pointed out, my Huawei Y6 smartphone  purchased in Europe does not
> cover many of the 4G bands in the US.

  Correction: You did *not* mention 4G. You excluded 2G, but not 3G.

[Repeat/rewind of above quote:]

> >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
> >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)

>					and one purchased in Canda does not 
> cover many of the bands in Europe. You may have been lucky if yours did,
> or you bought and expensive phone. 
>  Additionally, phone companies and countries keep coming up with new
>  bands to auction off. If this phone were one that covered all bands,
>  and could adapt itself to new bands when they come up, it would be
>  great. THAT could be a selling point. But Blackberry vs Apple is an
>  example where security lost out to sexyness.
>  
> > majority of countries. If you have very specific needs then you need to be
> > a little more careful with your choice of phone. 
> 
> You mean like wanting to use your phone in the US when you bought it in
> Europe? Is that a specific need?

  Yup, of course it is. See my other response for other examples of
need-to-prepare-for-travel.
  
  "Fsck! They don't even accept/use <insert_currency> here! And not only
that, they also drive on the wrong side of the bloody road! And they
don't even speak <insert_language>! And ..."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53714

On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-09, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> >> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning
>> >>>>>>>>>> to buy one?
>> >>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>> >>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
>> >>>>>>>>> false claims.
>> >>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
>> >>>>>>>> good to go.
>> >>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>> >>>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the
>> >>>>>> whole nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so
>> >>>>>> there is little need for traditional carrier support.
>> >>>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>> >>>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>> >>>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>> >>>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
>> >>> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>> >>> 
>> >> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
>> >> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
>> >> world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
>> >> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
>> >> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
>> >> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
>> >> 
>> >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
>> >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
>> >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
>> >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
>> >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
>> >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>> >> 
>> >> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
>> >> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
>> >
>> > None of the above has anything to do with carrier support of a particular
>> > phone. Which is the original claim i responded to. 
>> >
>> > Sure a phone will only work with networks that have bands that it supports
>> > yet most phones cover most bands. Which is sufficient for going to the
>> 
>> Sorry, this is not correct. Most phones do NOT cover most bands. Must
>> phones sold in country X cover most bands in use in country X. But look
>> at the band coverage of some cheaper phones and you will discover that
>> they do not cover most bands. Also manufacturers purposely limit the
>> bands so that you cannot buy an Indian phone in the US (or a US phone in
>> India) and expect it to work. Expensive ($1000) phone do cover most
>> bands around the world, but I raised the issue with respect to the phone
>> this thread is all about because they do not tell us what bands it
>> covers/will cover. 
>> 
>> As I pointed out, my Huawei Y6 smartphone  purchased in Europe does not
>> cover many of the 4G bands in the US.
>
>   Correction: You did *not* mention 4G. You excluded 2G, but not 3G.

What I said is that my phone did not connect to ANY ATT band, 2G 3G 4G
or 5G (the first and last of which of course they do not cover anyway). 
You put in the sim and nothing happens at all on any band. 


>
> [Repeat/rewind of above quote:]
>
>> >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
>> >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
>> >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
>> >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
>> >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
>> >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>
>>					and one purchased in Canda does not 
>> cover many of the bands in Europe. You may have been lucky if yours did,
>> or you bought and expensive phone. 
>>  Additionally, phone companies and countries keep coming up with new
>>  bands to auction off. If this phone were one that covered all bands,
>>  and could adapt itself to new bands when they come up, it would be
>>  great. THAT could be a selling point. But Blackberry vs Apple is an
>>  example where security lost out to sexyness.
>>  
>> > majority of countries. If you have very specific needs then you need to be
>> > a little more careful with your choice of phone. 
>> 
>> You mean like wanting to use your phone in the US when you bought it in
>> Europe? Is that a specific need?
>
>   Yup, of course it is. See my other response for other examples of
> need-to-prepare-for-travel.
>   
>   "Fsck! They don't even accept/use <insert_currency> here! And not only
> that, they also drive on the wrong side of the bloody road! And they
> don't even speak <insert_language>! And ..."

So from me talking FUD it now becomes "You should have expected that".
Hmm.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53762

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-09, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>>>>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
>>>>>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
>>>>>>> need for traditional carrier support.
>>>>>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>>>>>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>>>>> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>>>>> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>>>> 
>>>> You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
>>>> manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>>>> 
>>> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
>>> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
>>> world). Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
>>> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
>>> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
>>> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
>>> 
>>> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
>>> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
>>> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
>>> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
>>> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
>>> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>>> 
>>> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
>>> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
>> 
>> None of the above has anything to do with carrier support of a particular
>> phone. Which is the original claim i responded to. 
>> 
>> Sure a phone will only work with networks that have bands that it supports
>> yet most phones cover most bands. Which is sufficient for going to the
> 
> Sorry, this is not correct. Most phones do NOT cover most bands. 

Ok. Maybe an exaggeration, but let's say most phones cover sufficient bands
for most people. 

> Must
> phones sold in country X cover most bands in use in country X. But look
> at the band coverage of some cheaper phones and you will discover that
> they do not cover most bands. 

Don't buy cheap phones if you want to travel, then?

>> majority of countries. If you have very specific needs then you need to be
>> a little more careful with your choice of phone. 
> 
> You mean like wanting to use your phone in the US when you bought it in
> Europe? Is that a specific need?

I mean whatever is important to you. If that's what's important for your
needs, then yes. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53705

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> >>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to
> >>>>>>>> buy one?
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> >>>>>>> false claims.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> >>>>>> good to go.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
> >>>>> that the carrier operates on.
> >>>> 
> >>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
> >>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
> >>>> need for traditional carrier support.
> >>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> >>> 
> >>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
> >>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
> >> 
> >> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
> >> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
> >> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
> >
> > You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> > manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
> >
> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,

  Yup. If you want to use a device in a totally different geographical
area, you will have to think_about/specify your needs. Goes for most
anything and a smartphone is no exception.

> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
> world).

  FYI, in Europe, there's still a lot of 2G. For example in my country
(The Netherlands), Germany, Austria and probably most other countries.

>	  Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
> 
> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)

  Doesn't your Y6 have US/ATT-compatible *3G* bands?

  My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.

> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 

  Yup. Strange huh, *other* countries *also* having rules for furriners!?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53707

On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> >> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>> >>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to
>> >>>>>>>> buy one?
>> >>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
>> >>>>>>> false claims.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
>> >>>>>> good to go.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>> >>>>> that the carrier operates on.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
>> >>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
>> >>>> need for traditional carrier support.
>> >>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
>> >>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports. 
>> >> 
>> >> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
>> >> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
>> >> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
>> >
>> > You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
>> > manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
>> >
>> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
>
>   Yup. If you want to use a device in a totally different geographical
> area, you will have to think_about/specify your needs. Goes for most
> anything and a smartphone is no exception.
>
>> or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
>> world).
>
>   FYI, in Europe, there's still a lot of 2G. For example in my country
> (The Netherlands), Germany, Austria and probably most other countries.

Yes, and it is being phased out. They have better things to do with
their bandwidth, esp with 5G coming. Note that it may stay forever in
the EU since this would be part of EU policy to make phones operable
everywhere, and since the EU decision making process is somewhat
cumbersome, the chances of agreement to phase out 2G might well never be
made. 

>
>>	  Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
>> bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this 
>> phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
>> have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
>> 
>> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
>> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
>> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
>> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
>> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
>> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>
>   Doesn't your Y6 have US/ATT-compatible *3G* bands?

Nope. It did not connect at all. (that was 2 years ago). 

>
>   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.

Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
the submodel number as well. 

>
>> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
>> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
>
>   Yup. Strange huh, *other* countries *also* having rules for furriners!?

Data is no problem in Japan. So you can buy a PAYG sim in Japan which
includes 5GB of data, for extremely low price (coming from Canada where
data is extortionate) but you cannot get a sim which covers voice
without buying a 2 year contract. meanwhile in most other places in Asia you
can buy a PAYG voice and data sim. If it were a "furriner" issue, why in
the world do they allow data sims? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53710

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> >> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> >> >>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> >> >>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to
> >> >>>>>>>> buy one?
> >> >>>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> >> >>>>>>> false claims.
> >> >>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> >> >>>>>> good to go.
> >> >>>>>> 
> >> >>>>> 
> >> >>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
> >> >>>>> that the carrier operates on.
> >> >>>> 
> >> >>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the
> >> >>>> whole nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so
> >> >>>> there is little need for traditional carrier support.
> >> >>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any
> >> >>> network.  There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey
> >> >>> imports. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
> >> >> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
> >> >> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick. 
> >> >
> >> > You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> >> > manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects. 
> >> >
> >> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
> >
> >   Yup. If you want to use a device in a totally different geographical
> > area, you will have to think_about/specify your needs. Goes for most
> > anything and a smartphone is no exception.

  Silent agreement duly noted. Thanks.

[...]

> >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble. 
> >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
> >
> >   Doesn't your Y6 have US/ATT-compatible *3G* bands?
> 
> Nope. It did not connect at all. (that was 2 years ago). 

  It would be interesting to know which (3G) band your Y6 has and which
(3G) bands ATT used/uses.

> >   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> > of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
> 
> Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
> three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
> So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
> the submodel number as well. 

  Probably not totally correct, considering that my Y560-L02 works in
Europe *and* in the US *and* in (many/most parts of) Asia.

> >> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> >> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum. 
> >
> >   Yup. Strange huh, *other* countries *also* having rules for furriners!?
> 
> Data is no problem in Japan. So you can buy a PAYG sim in Japan which
> includes 5GB of data, for extremely low price (coming from Canada where
> data is extortionate) but you cannot get a sim which covers voice
> without buying a 2 year contract. meanwhile in most other places in Asia you
> can buy a PAYG voice and data sim. If it were a "furriner" issue, why in
> the world do they allow data sims? 

  You're an US citizen and you ask why *other* countries *also* have
'silly' rules!? :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53713

On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
>> > of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
>> 
>> Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
>> three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
>> So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
>> the submodel number as well. 
>
>   Probably not totally correct, considering that my Y560-L02 works in
> Europe *and* in the US *and* in (many/most parts of) Asia.

I see, and because your one phone does cover that whole area, most
phones do? My point was that you HAVE to know what bands the phone
covers to figure out whether or not it will work where you want to use
it. This phone that is the subject of discussion nowhere tells you what
bands it covers. To plunk down $600 for such a pig in a poke is madness. 

>
>> 
>> Data is no problem in Japan. So you can buy a PAYG sim in Japan which
>> includes 5GB of data, for extremely low price (coming from Canada where
>> data is extortionate) but you cannot get a sim which covers voice
>> without buying a 2 year contract. meanwhile in most other places in Asia you
>> can buy a PAYG voice and data sim. If it were a "furriner" issue, why in
>> the world do they allow data sims? 
>
>   You're an US citizen and you ask why *other* countries *also* have
> 'silly' rules!? :-)

I am NOT a US citizen. Had you actually read what I said, that should
have been obvious. And by this point you have completely agreed with my
contention all along, that in order to figure out whether the phone is
usefull you have to know what bands it covers. And all phones do not cover
all bands. So you now agree that what I said was not FUD?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53718

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> >   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> >> > of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
> >> 
> >> Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
> >> three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
> >> So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
> >> the submodel number as well. 
> >
> >   Probably not totally correct, considering that my Y560-L02 works in
> > Europe *and* in the US *and* in (many/most parts of) Asia.
> 
> I see, and because your one phone does cover that whole area, most
> phones do?

  Do you get your straw men in bulk!?

  I am comparing my Y5 to your Y6, i.e. to a *newer* phone of the *same*
manufacturer. Hence I'm not talking about other phones, let alone about
most other phones.

  So if "three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in
Asia" is not correct for the Y5, it's likely not correct for the Y6
either. That's all I'm saying.

  (AFAIC,) EOD.

[Repeated backpedals/rewriting_history deleted.]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53719

In article <q3n4vv$f9b$1@dont-email.me>
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> >   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> >> > of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
> >>
> >> Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
> >> three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
> >> So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
> >> the submodel number as well.
> >
> >   Probably not totally correct, considering that my Y560-L02 works in
> > Europe *and* in the US *and* in (many/most parts of) Asia.
>
> I see, and because your one phone does cover that whole area, most
> phones do? My point was that you HAVE to know what bands the phone
> covers to figure out whether or not it will work where you want to use
> it. This phone that is the subject of discussion nowhere tells you what
> bands it covers. To plunk down $600 for such a pig in a poke is madness.
>
> >
> >>
> >> Data is no problem in Japan. So you can buy a PAYG sim in Japan which
> >> includes 5GB of data, for extremely low price (coming from Canada where
> >> data is extortionate) but you cannot get a sim which covers voice
> >> without buying a 2 year contract. meanwhile in most other places in Asia you
> >> can buy a PAYG voice and data sim. If it were a "furriner" issue, why in
> >> the world do they allow data sims?
> >
> >   You're an US citizen and you ask why *other* countries *also* have
> > 'silly' rules!? :-)
>
> I am NOT a US citizen. Had you actually read what I said, that should
> have been obvious. And by this point you have completely agreed with my
> contention all along, that in order to figure out whether the phone is
> usefull you have to know what bands it covers. And all phones do not cover
> all bands. So you now agree that what I said was not FUD?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53721

In article <q3n7jj.74c.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > On 2019-02-09, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > >> On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > >> >> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> > >> >>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> > >> >>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to
> > >> >>>>>>>> buy one?
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> > >> >>>>>>> false claims.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> > >> >>>>>> good to go.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
> > >> >>>>> that the carrier operates on.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the
> > >> >>>> whole nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so
> > >> >>>> there is little need for traditional carrier support.
> > >> >>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any
> > >> >>> network.  There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey
> > >> >>> imports.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
> > >> >> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
> > >> >> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick.
> > >> >
> > >> > You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> > >> > manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects.
> > >> >
> > >> That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
> > >
> > >   Yup. If you want to use a device in a totally different geographical
> > > area, you will have to think_about/specify your needs. Goes for most
> > > anything and a smartphone is no exception.
>
>   Silent agreement duly noted. Thanks.
>
> [...]
>
> > >> And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble.
> > >> For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> > >> the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> > >> correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> > >> each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> > >> work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
> > >
> > >   Doesn't your Y6 have US/ATT-compatible *3G* bands?
> >
> > Nope. It did not connect at all. (that was 2 years ago).
>
>   It would be interesting to know which (3G) band your Y6 has and which
> (3G) bands ATT used/uses.
>
> > >   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> > > of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
> >
> > Yes, it will also depend on the exact model of the phone. The Y6 has
> > three models, one of which works in Europe one in US and one in Asia.
> > So you cannot even just say "I want model number X" but have to look at
> > the submodel number as well.
>
>   Probably not totally correct, considering that my Y560-L02 works in
> Europe *and* in the US *and* in (many/most parts of) Asia.
>
> > >> In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> > >> To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum.
> > >
> > >   Yup. Strange huh, *other* countries *also* having rules for furriners!?
> >
> > Data is no problem in Japan. So you can buy a PAYG sim in Japan which
> > includes 5GB of data, for extremely low price (coming from Canada where
> > data is extortionate) but you cannot get a sim which covers voice
> > without buying a 2 year contract. meanwhile in most other places in Asia you
> > can buy a PAYG voice and data sim. If it were a "furriner" issue, why in
> > the world do they allow data sims?
>
>   You're an US citizen and you ask why *other* countries *also* have
> 'silly' rules!? :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53711

In article <q3n5r3.74c.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > On 2019-02-08, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> > >> On 2019-02-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> > >>>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> > >>>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to
> > >>>>>>>> buy one?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous
> > >>>>>>> false claims.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're
> > >>>>>> good to go.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
> > >>>>> that the carrier operates on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole
> > >>>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little
> > >>>> need for traditional carrier support.
> > >>>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> > >>>
> > >>> Yep. In the uk i can buy any retail phone and it'll work on any network.
> > >>> There are some exceptions with 2G phones or grey imports.
> > >>
> > >> a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone, and
> > >> so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or Maroco, or
> > >> USA and find your phone is as useful as brick.
> > >
> > > You know, the concept of travel has not escaped the notice of phone
> > > manufacturers. I have been to all those countries with no ill effects.
> > >
> > That is because you bought a phone which covers the appropriate bands,
>
>   Yup. If you want to use a device in a totally different geographical
> area, you will have to think_about/specify your needs. Goes for most
> anything and a smartphone is no exception.
>
> > or maybe you just used 2G (which is being phased out all over the
> > world).
>
>   FYI, in Europe, there's still a lot of 2G. For example in my country
> (The Netherlands), Germany, Austria and probably most other countries.
>
> >	  Apple has almost always had support on almost all te 3G and 4G
> > bands. Other phones not necessarily. To bring us back to the topic, this
> > phone tells you nothing about which bands it covers. Ie, you could well
> > have trouble if you use it outside of its country.
> >
> > And I have been to many countries with my smart phone and had trouble.
> > For example my Hauwei Y6 which I bought in the UK cannot work on ATT in
> > the US at all (ATT does not have 2G and my phone's bands do not
> > correspond to ATT's bands. And there are about 3 or 4 versions of the Y6
> > each of which covers different bands (My wife's, bought in Canada does
> > work on ATT in the US, but not very well)
>
>   Doesn't your Y6 have US/ATT-compatible *3G* bands?
>
>   My Y5 (Y560-L02) has 850, 1900 and 2100MHz 3G bands, which covers most
> of the world, including AU/NZ (which partly use 850MHz) and the US.
>
> > In Japan the problem is that you cannot buy a Sim there except for data.
> > To get a "talking sim" you need a Japanese contract, 2 years minimum.
>
>   Yup. Strange huh, *other* countries *also* having rules for furriners!?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53654

On 2019-02-07, J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>
>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>
>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>
>> 
>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>> that the carrier operates on.
>
> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole 
> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little 
> need for traditional carrier support.
> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.

Just wrong. TheUS has about 10 bands, depending on the carrier, and the
type (GSM2--where there are 4 bands woprldwide and 2 in the US, but
there is the additional problem of CDMA which is inaccessible from a GSM
phone and does not use SIMS), but it
is also being phased out almost everywhere, GSM3 where there are about 8
bands and GSM4 where there are about 40 or so around the world and about
15 in the US alone. 
Now adays, the phone should support most of these bands, so you do not
have to throw it away when you go on holiday in France or India or
Japan, or ...
nd now GSM5 is coming which will have another plethora of frequencies. 

Now if you live in Podunk USA and never go more than 10 miles from home,
this is irrelevant. But most people those 1000 phones are directed at
are travellers who could go anywhere in the world and want their phone
to work anywhere. Which means that the phone has to support almost all
of the GSM2 3 4 (and 5) frequency bands.


>
> This ain't the only Linux phone we have seen, the most successful this 
> far has been Nokian N9 (Managed to outsell Nokia's windows mobiles 3 
> month in a row, before Elop terminated it), but the issue is that a lot 
> of serious application will be lacking like Mobile Digital ID 
> applications, which is a must in many countries also banking apps will 
> be missing (sure you can try to use the webpage, but not as great user 
> experience when having to use a mobile phone).
> The only major Linux Mobile OS at the moment is SailfishOS and it has 
> support to run Android applications out of the box and even that hasn't 
> made it to get more traction and they had carrier support with the Jolla 
> phone.
>
>
> I would say cool project, but dead in the water.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53666

On 2/8/19 12:40 AM, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2019-02-07, J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote:
>> On 2/6/19 5:24 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>>> On 2019-02-06, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> In article <q3dlkf$e4a$1@news.neodome.i2p>, <anon@anon.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently, we will have it in April 2019. Anyone planning to buy one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
>>>>>
>>>>> dead on arrival. no carrier support, no apps and numerous false claims.
>>>>
>>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>> that the carrier operates on.
>>
>> In most countries, including US, there is an standard for the whole
>> nation (the only exception I can think of is China), so there is little
>> need for traditional carrier support.
>> Sure if you can get carriers to promote the phone, that would help.
> 
> Just wrong. TheUS has about 10 bands, depending on the carrier, and the
> type (GSM2--where there are 4 bands woprldwide and 2 in the US, but
> there is the additional problem of CDMA which is inaccessible from a GSM
> phone and does not use SIMS), but it
> is also being phased out almost everywhere, GSM3 where there are about 8
> bands and GSM4 where there are about 40 or so around the world and about
> 15 in the US alone.
> Now adays, the phone should support most of these bands, so you do not
> have to throw it away when you go on holiday in France or India or
> Japan, or ...
> nd now GSM5 is coming which will have another plethora of frequencies.

Those are standards, you do not have two different variations of CDMA 
and you have devices that use CDMA and has SIM slot and those those 
phones can be used on which ever network.

Sure you have different technologies even in Europe/UK, but you don't go 
out and buy a GMS device anymore, you will be looking at a 4G or even a 
5G device, which do have support for older networks too.

Analog -> GMS -> UMTS -> LTE

> Now if you live in Podunk USA and never go more than 10 miles from home,
> this is irrelevant. But most people those 1000 phones are directed at
> are travellers who could go anywhere in the world and want their phone
> to work anywhere. Which means that the phone has to support almost all
> of the GSM2 3 4 (and 5) frequency bands.


There are plenty of devices that works in US/Europe with no problems, 
the biggest issue tend to be Japan.


 > a) that is because in the UK., they want to sell phones to everyone,
 > and so make sure they support UK phones. Then you go to Spain or
 > Maroco, or USA and find your phone is as useful as brick.

Europe is standardized, the UK phone will work fine in Spain and even 
Maroco, if the phone is old it may not work in US, if it's newer there 
is a good chance it will work in US, maybe not all the bands as some are 
banned bands in Europe.

-- 

  //Aho

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53651 — Re: PureOS and Librem laptops

William Unruh wrote in <q3f1nj$6h2$1@dont-email.me>:

>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>
>
>Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>that the carrier operates on.

There are international standards such as GSM. Ever heard of it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53656 — Re: PureOS and Librem laptops

On 2019-02-07, <anon@anon.com> <anon@anon.com> wrote:
> William Unruh wrote in <q3f1nj$6h2$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>>> Carrier support isn't required. Just pop a SIM in and you're good to go.
>>>
>>
>>Of course it is. The phone has to operate on the frequency/type band
>>that the carrier operates on.
>
> There are international standards such as GSM. Ever heard of it?

Have you ever travelled? Have you ever read what GSM means?

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