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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #210335 > unrolled thread

Re: IBM system/360 ad

Started byrobin.vowels@gmail.com
First post2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
Last post2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 590 — 35 participants

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Contents

  Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-08 16:07 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-08 16:50 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 13:19 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-09 12:16 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 16:35 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-09 16:18 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-09 19:41 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-10 12:29 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 19:02 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:46 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:07 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:10 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 01:06 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:33 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 12:09 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-10 22:46 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:18 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-11 19:49 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 13:11 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 19:08 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 16:42 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-12 22:11 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-03-12 23:49 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-03-13 08:36 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-03-11 22:17 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 16:47 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:40 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:52 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:32 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-11 14:52 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 18:17 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 15:03 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-12 15:29 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-12 19:38 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-03-13 18:07 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-13 11:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:31 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 01:34 +0000
              Re: IBM system/360-30 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-13 00:19 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-13 00:26 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360-30 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:38 -0400
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-03-09 21:38 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 12:11 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:11 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:13 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:54 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 12:04 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 10:31 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:11 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
                  Re: IBM 1130, system John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-06-12 23:51 +0000
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:09 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:29 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:35 -0400
                          RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-24 23:03 +0000
                            Re: RPG was Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 07:26 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:12 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 11:29 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:34 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:01 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:39 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:15 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:24 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:50 -0400
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:34 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:53 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 23:14 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:28 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:01 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 11:31 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 10:11 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 13:26 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:23 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 14:35 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 12:08 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 15:13 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:28 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:33 +0100
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:47 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 11:10 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 08:15 -0400
                                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 14:51 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 16:20 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:24 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 16:46 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-26 19:52 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:00 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-08-27 14:11 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:21 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:38 +0100
                                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-27 11:39 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 13:38 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 12:03 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:11 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-26 21:17 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                            Re: IBM system/360 ad drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-26 12:13 -0500
                                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-26 11:27 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 17:21 +0100
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 17:37 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-26 04:07 -0500
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:02 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:29 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 20:20 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 12:45 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:31 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:54 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:33 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:44 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:31 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 19:16 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:55 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-25 14:52 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:02 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 13:13 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:38 +0100
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-23 07:37 +0000
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-23 01:00 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:43 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 12:22 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-23 20:49 +0100
                Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-22 11:05 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-23 00:55 +0000
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:25 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 17:18 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 01:19 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:08 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 03:46 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:09 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:15 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:44 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 12:29 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-25 19:37 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 21:52 +0100
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:44 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-26 12:21 +0000
                                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 15:15 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:42 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-27 09:43 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 22:27 +0100
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:38 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 18:09 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-26 00:12 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 20:35 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 11:18 +0000
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:40 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 08:26 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-25 12:35 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:26 -0400
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:44 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 07:56 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 09:41 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:43 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-25 16:28 +0100
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 11:52 -0400
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-25 15:16 +0000
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-25 12:56 +0000
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 10:40 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 10:59 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 15:58 -0400
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 16:48 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:26 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 19:07 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-23 06:55 -0700
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-23 10:23 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 14:33 -0400
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 23:28 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-24 13:39 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-24 18:37 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 22:13 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 20:09 -0700
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:11 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:18 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-26 14:34 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:49 -0400
                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-26 22:28 +0000
                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:49 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:49 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 19:39 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:42 -0700
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:21 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-01 19:17 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:22 -0700
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-02 08:42 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-03 05:37 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 02:22 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 09:48 +0000
                                                        Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 17:55 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 19:31 +0100
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:13 +0000
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:24 -0700
                                                          Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:30 +0000
                                                            Re: PL/something, IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:08 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-04 05:21 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 05:51 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-05 06:34 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:13 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:10 -0500
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-09 05:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-09 09:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:16 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:07 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0600
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 19:20 +0000
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 16:06 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 19:12 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 11:59 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:11 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 14:05 +0000
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:18 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-02 16:34 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:35 +0000
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 23:59 +0100
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 13:39 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> - 2020-09-03 18:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:45 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:26 -0500
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 20:49 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:37 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:27 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-03 07:05 +0100
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 10:16 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-09-03 12:29 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:26 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:11 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Richard Thiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2020-09-03 14:20 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-03 19:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:38 -0500
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 19:04 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:00 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 10:55 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 14:02 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:11 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 17:45 +0100
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:10 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:22 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 09:53 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:19 -0400
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:52 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:04 -0400
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 07:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 09:15 -0400
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-03 13:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 18:04 -0400
                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 05:48 +0000
                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:07 -0400
                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 14:56 +0000
                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:07 -0400
                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 19:49 +0000
                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:12 -0400
                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 20:34 +0000
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:53 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-04 21:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-05 12:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:41 -0400
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:00 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 18:09 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:41 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:10 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:04 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-08 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-09 13:17 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:34 -0400
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 22:37 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:56 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-05 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:23 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:37 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 16:57 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: fun with APL, was IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 17:09 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 22:05 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-06 06:30 -0700
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 21:32 -0500
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 23:08 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 00:05 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:48 +0000
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-05 07:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 12:09 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 21:00 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:45 -0500
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:37 -0400
                                                                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-08 11:59 -0700
                                                                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 15:22 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-04 16:02 -0700
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 19:43 -0400
                                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 18:13 -0400
                                                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-05 09:47 +0000
                                                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 12:21 +0100
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 21:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:01 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:16 -0400
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Stefan Möding <Sep2020.5.kill-9@spamgourmet.com> - 2020-09-02 16:14 +0200
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 07:20 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:36 -0400
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:19 -0400
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 15:25 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 14:43 +0100
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 12:40 -0400
                                                Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 06:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:36 +0000
                                                      Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-02 20:54 +0000
                                                        Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 22:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Fortran on IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-03 06:27 +0000
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 16:48 -0400
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 23:53 +0000
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 20:33 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 02:46 +0000
                                            Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 23:08 -0400
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 19:30 +0000
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:00 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:27 +0000
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 21:01 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 22:51 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360/20, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 01:24 +0000
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:28 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:19 +0000
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 19:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:47 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 14:16 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 03:32 +0000
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:11 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 19:41 -0700
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 08:58 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 17:27 -0700
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 01:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 20:26 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 20:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 21:21 -0700
                                                                    Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 16:34 +0000
                                                                      Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:13 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-01 06:34 -0700
                                                                        Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-01 16:52 -0700
                                                            Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:07 -0700
                                                              Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 19:38 +0000
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:08 -0400
                                                                Re: IBM system/360, model 20 PL/I Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:41 -0700
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:22 -0700
                                              Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:23 -0400
                                                  Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:21 +0000
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 09:41 -0400
                                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:24 -0700
                                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 15:07 -0400
                                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 22:21 -0400
                                          Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 07:20 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 00:56 +0000
                                      Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:46 -0700
                                        Re: IBM system/360, whiz or dog? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:15 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:59 -0700
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 21:47 -0400
                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 02:40 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 00:04 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:24 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-27 15:55 +0100
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 11:14 -0400
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:30 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-27 23:24 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:38 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 06:44 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 10:59 -0400
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 10:15 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:05 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 19:37 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:05 -0400
                                                Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-28 20:30 +0000
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 21:40 +0000
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                  Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                                    Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:03 -0400
                                                      Re: stacks KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 14:01 +0000
                                                Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:33 +0000
                                                  Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-30 11:09 +0000
                                                    Re: Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:18 -0700
                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 17:58 +0000
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-31 17:17 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 19:58 +0000
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-01 09:39 +0000
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 04:10 -0700
                                                            Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 08:19 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-01 18:08 +0000
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 16:04 -0400
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:13 -0700
                                                                  Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: block moves, 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:52 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 00:06 -0400
                                                              Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 18:05 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 22:32 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 02:51 +0000
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 23:52 -0400
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:58 -0700
                                                                Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                                                  Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 10:18 -0400
                                                                    Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 13:28 -0400
                                                        Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 15:50 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-31 17:24 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:19 -0700
                                                          Re: 70X index OR mode, Fortran, not KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-31 22:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2020-08-28 18:58 +0100
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:23 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:21 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:05 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 19:39 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:18 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 17:52 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 21:39 -0400
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-08-30 11:51 +0000
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:06 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 08:36 -0400
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 10:43 -0400
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 11:49 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:10 -0400
                                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:33 -0400
                                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 15:03 -0400
                                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-30 16:37 +0000
                                                    Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 16:55 +0000
                                                      Re: Home made card reader J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:20 -0400
                                                        Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-30 17:23 +0000
                                                          Re: Home made card reader Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 16:38 -0700
                                                            Re: Home made card reader John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 00:27 +0000
                                                            Re: Home made card reader Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-31 09:34 +0000
                                                              Re: Home made card reader usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
                                                                Re: Home made card reader Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-02 08:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: Home made card reader Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 15:04 -0700
                                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:19 -0400
                                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-31 07:23 +0100
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 20:34 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:37 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-30 11:40 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-30 07:31 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:06 +0000
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-02 20:40 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 21:06 -0400
                                            Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 01:41 +0000
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 23:28 -0400
                                                Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 18:10 +0000
                                                  Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:25 -0400
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:26 +0000
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:03 -0400
                                                        Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 16:03 -0700
                                                    Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-04 23:34 -0700
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 10:02 -0400
                                                      Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-05 17:38 -0700
                                              Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-03 16:32 +0000
                                          Re: PDP-10, was KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-04 18:11 +0000
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-08-29 01:04 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:14 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:35 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 12:13 -0400
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-28 07:00 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-28 15:17 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:24 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 20:04 -0400
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:07 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:20 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-29 12:28 +0000
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-29 12:31 +0000
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-29 23:58 +0000
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:10 -0700
                                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 05:21 +0100
                                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
                                          Re: flaming, not at all KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-29 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:15 -0700
                                    Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-28 12:45 -0700
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-28 20:28 +0000
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-29 11:11 -0700
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 14:28 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 19:39 +0100
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 16:59 -0400
                                      Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 15:15 -0700
                                        Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 18:25 -0400
                                          Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-28 18:09 -0700
                                            Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 22:28 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:28 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-29 08:40 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 18:56 -0400
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:39 -0700
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:34 -0700
                                Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:44 -0700
                                  Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 19:08 +0000
                              Re: KDF9, not IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-27 11:36 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:11 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:25 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:32 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 10:36 -0700
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:40 -0700
                                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-28 05:10 -0700
                            Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 06:20 -0700
                              Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 09:31 -0400
                                Re: IBM system/360 ad John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-27 17:42 +0000
                                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Stoat <fake@fake.org> - 2020-08-28 15:49 +1200
                          Re: IBM system/360 ad gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 16:06 +0100
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 14:03 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-10 11:27 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-10 14:47 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-03-11 15:05 -0400
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-11 16:33 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-12 14:57 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 19:59 -0400
                      Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 17:27 -0700
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-03-12 20:57 -0400
                        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-13 10:15 -0700
            Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-10 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-03-11 12:32 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-12 02:52 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 10:27 -0400
              Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-14 13:40 +0000
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-14 09:01 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 12:36 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-06-15 21:58 +0000
            Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-12 07:49 -0700
              Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 12:57 -0700
                Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 17:39 -0400
                  Re: IBM system/360 ad Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-06-12 15:29 -0700
                    Re: IBM system/360 ad Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:33 -0400
      Re: IBM system/360 ad Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-03-11 21:23 -0500
        Re: IBM system/360 ad robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-03-11 20:50 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-12 09:34 -0700
        Re: IBM system/360 ad hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-08-25 13:55 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-25 18:06 -0700
          Re: IBM system/360 ad Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-08-25 23:05 -0700
    Re: IBM system/360 ad Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-03-08 17:19 -0700

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#213138

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 15:34 -0400
Message-ID<ri3p3j$g6r$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213118
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> The first time a user coming from Unix or Windows sees a PDS they tend
> to think of it as a directory.  This works just fine until they bump
> into one of the many ways that it is _not_ a directory.

Yeah, what do you mean I have to compress this thing?
What do you mean no one else can be looking at it while I compress it.
Who the hell has STATS OFF?

So, if this PDS/E thing is so great why didn't it just replace PDS?

How did these special characters get in my member names.

I understand PDS/Es allow member names longer than 8 characters.
Not that you can just go ahead and do that.

I wanted my site to dump all the expensive IBM disk and just NFS mount
all their source trees.  I couldn't even demonstrate how well that
worked because a PL/I program in the build system specifically forbid
"/" in source file names.  I was so disgusted I just walked away.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213151

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 16:53 -0400
Message-ID<chuakf1ig941nphd42fcj5gd5vv039us6m@4ax.com>
In reply to#213138
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:34:11 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The first time a user coming from Unix or Windows sees a PDS they tend
>> to think of it as a directory.  This works just fine until they bump
>> into one of the many ways that it is _not_ a directory.
>
>Yeah, what do you mean I have to compress this thing?
>What do you mean no one else can be looking at it while I compress it.
>Who the hell has STATS OFF?
>
>So, if this PDS/E thing is so great why didn't it just replace PDS?
>
>How did these special characters get in my member names.
>
>I understand PDS/Es allow member names longer than 8 characters.
>Not that you can just go ahead and do that.
>
>I wanted my site to dump all the expensive IBM disk and just NFS mount
>all their source trees.  I couldn't even demonstrate how well that
>worked because a PL/I program in the build system specifically forbid
>"/" in source file names.  I was so disgusted I just walked away.

"/" is always a problem for _something_.  And if it's not "/" then
it's "\".

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#213169

FromNiklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se>
Date2020-08-25 23:14 +0000
Message-ID<hqlkavF7oorU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#213151
On 2020-08-25, J  Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:34:11 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>I wanted my site to dump all the expensive IBM disk and just NFS mount
>>all their source trees.  I couldn't even demonstrate how well that
>>worked because a PL/I program in the build system specifically forbid
>>"/" in source file names.  I was so disgusted I just walked away.
>
> "/" is always a problem for _something_.  And if it's not "/" then
> it's "\".

Certainly, and the number of people who have shot themselves in the foot
by writing *nix shell scripts that can't handle spaces in file names is
probably very large. (I might have done it myself once or twice.)

Niklas
-- 
The Internet is totally out of control, impossible to map accurately, and
being used far beyond its original intentions. So far, so good.
                       -- Dr. Dobb's Journal May 1993

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#213121

FromJohnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local>
Date2020-08-25 17:28 +0000
Message-ID<ri3hop$1aik$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#213111
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not the only old guy here.
> There are even a few that started a few years before me.

Then I guess I'll switch to the plural form of 'you'
;-)

> and get the results if I needed them.  I used Perl so if I had a bad
> compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract
> the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error'
> understood.  So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile
> then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with
> the error message showing in another buffer.

I'm not an emacs user, but the same works in vi too,
where this feature is called 'quickfix'.  It is so
convenient, in fact, that it justified a couple of
extra scripts extracting the compiler's output out of
our horrific build system.

>> I don't know what a PDS memeber is :)  What is it (if
>> you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky
>> details)?
>
> Yeah, you don't want to know.

LOL

> The MVS native file system is nothing like the hierarchical
> file systems we've become used to.

Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
guess...  Maybe some convention helped?

> Traditional MVS file names are 44 characters max
> all upper case, each node in the name a maximum of 8 characters.
>
> If you want to look at lots of files with statistics like
> date/time size, who changed it last, you use a PDS (Partitioned Data
> Set).  That's one dataset with lots of members.  Each member name
> 8 characters all upper case.
>
> There are enough details and restrictions to write a treatise.

I can't really figure it, but sure it looks
complicated.  I don't understand what you mean by
"node" though: was the file name segmented?

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#213135

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-25 11:13 -0700
Message-ID<1285849400.620071228.783310.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213121
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not the only old guy here.
>> There are even a few that started a few years before me.
> 
> Then I guess I'll switch to the plural form of 'you'
> ;-)
> 
>> and get the results if I needed them.  I used Perl so if I had a bad
>> compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract
>> the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error'
>> understood.  So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile
>> then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with
>> the error message showing in another buffer.
> 
> I'm not an emacs user, but the same works in vi too,
> where this feature is called 'quickfix'.  It is so
> convenient, in fact, that it justified a couple of
> extra scripts extracting the compiler's output out of
> our horrific build system.
> 
>>> I don't know what a PDS memeber is :)  What is it (if
>>> you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky
>>> details)?
>> 
>> Yeah, you don't want to know.
> 
> LOL
> 
>> The MVS native file system is nothing like the hierarchical
>> file systems we've become used to.
> 
> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?

It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
your files are and access them this way. 

The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
PLI, JCL, etc.

Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
(high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.

-- 
Pete

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#213179

FromJohnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local>
Date2020-08-26 07:01 +0000
Message-ID<ri51d1$ln8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#213135
On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>
> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
> your files are and access them this way. 
>
> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
> PLI, JCL, etc.
>
> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.

Thanks for the explanation.

Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
file extension.  Kind of stretchy.

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#213192

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-26 11:31 -0400
Message-ID<4vvckflipvirs00rrtolusdmib0oln7dhk@4ax.com>
In reply to#213179
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
<pato@thunder.local> wrote:

>On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>
>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>
>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>
>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>
>Thanks for the explanation.
>
>Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>file extension.  Kind of stretchy.

Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
another disk, and the third may be on a tape.

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#213199

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-26 10:11 -0700
Message-ID<325536000.620154624.227414.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213192
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
> 
>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>> 
>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>> 
>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>> 
>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>> 
>> Thanks for the explanation.
>> 
>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
> 
> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
> 

Why is that a problem? 

-- 
Pete

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#213201

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-26 13:26 -0400
Message-ID<go6dkflnsj6dr2irss4vle7kv1dnsis6hr@4ax.com>
In reply to#213199
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:11:09 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
>> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>>> 
>>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>>> 
>>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>> 
>>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
>> 
>> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
>> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
>> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
>> 
>
>Why is that a problem? 

It's not a problem in any sense, but it's not a directory.

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#213203

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-26 11:28 -0700
Message-ID<109749335.620159188.185654.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213201
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:11:09 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
>>> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>>> 
>>>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>>>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>>>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>>>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
>>> 
>>> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
>>> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
>>> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
>>> 
>> 
>> Why is that a problem? 
> 
> It's not a problem in any sense, but it's not a directory.
> 

That’s why I started by saying “it’s not really anything,” but it’s nice to
have online and offline files listed together.

-- 
Pete

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#213213

FromJohnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local>
Date2020-08-26 20:23 +0000
Message-ID<ri6gbh$1blp$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#213203
On 2020-08-26, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That’s why I started by saying “it’s not really anything,” but it’s nice to
> have online and offline files listed together.

sshfs + unionfs?

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#213204

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-26 14:35 -0400
Message-ID<ri6a28$74v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213199
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
>> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>>> 
>>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>>> 
>>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>> 
>>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
>> 
>> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
>> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
>> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
>
> Why is that a problem? 

Doesn't seem like a real world problem.
I didn't like using tape much but I'd guess the normal
convention is different naming patterns for tapes anyway.

I'm wondering how MVS dataset nodes differ from other OS's heirarchical
file systems.

I guess for one, it may look like a hierarchy but it's composed of
a bunch of different dataset types, so even though you can create a
list, you can't always launch commands against the whole thing.

You also can't reference the whole thing directly in JCL.
But I'm against using JCL anyway.

Most signifcant to me, only PDS members have statistics.
So you can look at the heirarchy but the normal information
we see on other systems is missing.

I've left out of this discussion that fact that the rules are different
if you don't catalog a dataset.  You can go ahead an create a dataset
with a lower case name on a volume, you just can't catalog it.

On an only slightly related topic,  I grew frustrated with all
the issues surrounding HSM migration.  Most of my cohorts had
no idea how to issue the various HSM commands for either forced
migrate, recall from migrate or recall from backup.

So ISPF services and panels to the rescue.  It didn't take much to
build a panel accepting a DSN pattern (a LEVEL), display all the
HSM datasets that matched in a table, then allow line commands
for migrate, recall or recall from backup.

The recall from backup would prompt the user if there was already
an existing dataset in place.  The user could replace what was there or select a
new name for the restored dataset.

What's with IBM leaving such basic functionality out of a product?


-- 
Dan Espen

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#213206

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2020-08-26 12:08 -0700
Message-ID<2016104219.620161280.854761.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#213204
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
>>> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>>> 
>>>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>>>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>>>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>>>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
>>> 
>>> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
>>> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
>>> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
>> 
>> Why is that a problem? 
> 
> Doesn't seem like a real world problem.
> I didn't like using tape much but I'd guess the normal
> convention is different naming patterns for tapes anyway.
> 
> I'm wondering how MVS dataset nodes differ from other OS's heirarchical
> file systems.
> 
> I guess for one, it may look like a hierarchy but it's composed of
> a bunch of different dataset types, so even though you can create a
> list, you can't always launch commands against the whole thing.
> 
> You also can't reference the whole thing directly in JCL.
> But I'm against using JCL anyway.
> 
> Most signifcant to me, only PDS members have statistics.
> So you can look at the heirarchy but the normal information
> we see on other systems is missing.
> 
> I've left out of this discussion that fact that the rules are different
> if you don't catalog a dataset.  You can go ahead an create a dataset
> with a lower case name on a volume, you just can't catalog it.
> 
> On an only slightly related topic,  I grew frustrated with all
> the issues surrounding HSM migration.  Most of my cohorts had
> no idea how to issue the various HSM commands for either forced
> migrate, recall from migrate or recall from backup.
> 
> So ISPF services and panels to the rescue.  It didn't take much to
> build a panel accepting a DSN pattern (a LEVEL), display all the
> HSM datasets that matched in a table, then allow line commands
> for migrate, recall or recall from backup.
> 
> The recall from backup would prompt the user if there was already
> an existing dataset in place.  The user could replace what was there or select a
> new name for the restored dataset.
> 
> What's with IBM leaving such basic functionality out of a product?
> 
> 

IME, most IBM software is either incomplete or poorly implemented. I can’t
recall after 30 years, but one of the first things I did at PPOE was clean
up our HSM (SMS) problems. I had to write a program to read the catalog and
expire some backup datasets, as I recall. I believe it was to get rid of
extraneous backups of datasets that had been deleted.

-- 
Pete

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#213207

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-26 15:13 -0400
Message-ID<ascdkfll5sq1mf5v2cu4v40ebu5rbj3t2k@4ax.com>
In reply to#213204
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:35:52 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
>>> <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2020-08-25, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
>>>>>> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s not flat, it’s not really anything. OS/360 was designed for systems
>>>>> that used removable disks. Each disk pack has a table of contents (VTOC)
>>>>> that’s flat. You can access files at this level if you want. Layered on top
>>>>> is a catalog, that imposes the hierarchy, so you can forget about where
>>>>> your files are and access them this way. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The catalog indexes the 44-character file names in 8-character chunks,
>>>>> separated by dots, and this is where the conventions come in. For example,
>>>>> ISPF files are PRGMR.NAME.TYPE (hopefully I’m recalling this right) where
>>>>> PRGMR is the individual’s logon name, and TYPE is the type of file: COBOL,
>>>>> PLI, JCL, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Application files might use the system as the first part of the name
>>>>> (high-level qualifier), so you might have PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.MASTER,
>>>>> PAYROLL.EMPLOYEE.TIMECARD, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>>> 
>>>> Even if only conventional, there is some similarity
>>>> with a hierarchical filesystem then.  The first
>>>> 'chunk'/'node' can be seen as a directory, the last a
>>>> file extension.  Kind of stretchy.
>>> 
>>> Some applications present it that way.  But if you have three datasets
>>> that start "ABCDEFGH.", one may be on one disk, another may be on
>>> another disk, and the third may be on a tape.
>>
>> Why is that a problem? 
>
>Doesn't seem like a real world problem.
>I didn't like using tape much but I'd guess the normal
>convention is different naming patterns for tapes anyway.

For datasets above a certain size our IT department insists that we
use "tapes".  They aren't really tapes, they're stored on disk in a
box that emulates a building full of tape drives, but we have to go
through the motions.  I think our IT hasn't grasped the concept that a
10 terabyte disk is a consumer product.

>I'm wondering how MVS dataset nodes differ from other OS's heirarchical
>file systems.
>
>I guess for one, it may look like a hierarchy but it's composed of
>a bunch of different dataset types, so even though you can create a
>list, you can't always launch commands against the whole thing.
>
>You also can't reference the whole thing directly in JCL.
>But I'm against using JCL anyway.
>
>Most signifcant to me, only PDS members have statistics.
>So you can look at the heirarchy but the normal information
>we see on other systems is missing.
>
>I've left out of this discussion that fact that the rules are different
>if you don't catalog a dataset.  You can go ahead an create a dataset
>with a lower case name on a volume, you just can't catalog it.
>
>On an only slightly related topic,  I grew frustrated with all
>the issues surrounding HSM migration.  Most of my cohorts had
>no idea how to issue the various HSM commands for either forced
>migrate, recall from migrate or recall from backup.
>
>So ISPF services and panels to the rescue.  It didn't take much to
>build a panel accepting a DSN pattern (a LEVEL), display all the
>HSM datasets that matched in a table, then allow line commands
>for migrate, recall or recall from backup.
>
>The recall from backup would prompt the user if there was already
>an existing dataset in place.  The user could replace what was there or select a
>new name for the restored dataset.
>
>What's with IBM leaving such basic functionality out of a product?

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#213219

Fromhancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Date2020-08-26 14:28 -0700
Message-ID<27731985-61cb-41dd-9b8b-ff82cf3d9fa7o@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#213207
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020 at 3:13:18 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:

> For datasets above a certain size our IT department insists that we
> use "tapes".  They aren't really tapes, they're stored on disk in a
> box that emulates a building full of tape drives, but we have to go
> through the motions.  I think our IT hasn't grasped the concept that a
> 10 terabyte disk is a consumer product.
 
They may be stored more efficiently, which saves storage
as appropriate for very large files.  Perhaps higher
data compression, which would make access a little slower.

There are always tradeoffs.

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#213225

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-08-26 22:33 +0100
Message-ID<20200826223304.c84840a447686e4af18f5fe0@eircom.net>
In reply to#213219
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:28:36 -0700 (PDT)
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> They may be stored more efficiently, which saves storage
> as appropriate for very large files.  Perhaps higher
> data compression, which would make access a little slower.

	Storage efficiency is nothing like as important as storage
reliability when large amounts of data are involved. Raw storage is cheap,
lost data is not.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#213140

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-25 15:47 -0400
Message-ID<ri3pt0$g6r$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213121
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes:

> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not the only old guy here.
>> There are even a few that started a few years before me.
>
> Then I guess I'll switch to the plural form of 'you'
> ;-)
>
>> and get the results if I needed them.  I used Perl so if I had a bad
>> compile, it was a simple matter for Perl to pull back the listing and extract
>> the error messages and present them in a way that Emacs 'next-error'
>> understood.  So I could edit in Emacs, hit a key to save and compile
>> then hit another key to position the cursor on the line in error with
>> the error message showing in another buffer.
>
> I'm not an emacs user, but the same works in vi too,
> where this feature is called 'quickfix'.  It is so
> convenient, in fact, that it justified a couple of
> extra scripts extracting the compiler's output out of
> our horrific build system.

I was pretty sure vi had a way.

Whenever I hear someone ask how do I get this editor to show line
numbers I know they are barking up the wrong tree.  You don't need
to display line numbers if your editor understands error messages.

>>> I don't know what a PDS memeber is :)  What is it (if
>>> you have time to explain... I'm eager of this pesky
>>> details)?
>>
>> Yeah, you don't want to know.
>
> LOL
>
>> The MVS native file system is nothing like the hierarchical
>> file systems we've become used to.
>
> Flat? Oh gosh, you *have* to remember your file name, I
> guess...  Maybe some convention helped?
>
>> Traditional MVS file names are 44 characters max
>> all upper case, each node in the name a maximum of 8 characters.
>>
>> If you want to look at lots of files with statistics like
>> date/time size, who changed it last, you use a PDS (Partitioned Data
>> Set).  That's one dataset with lots of members.  Each member name
>> 8 characters all upper case.
>>
>> There are enough details and restrictions to write a treatise.
>
> I can't really figure it, but sure it looks
> complicated.  I don't understand what you mean by
> "node" though: was the file name segmented?

Yes, the filename can be up to 44 characters but it must consist of
alphanumerics separated by periods.

SYS1.SAMPLIB
USER1.PROJECT.COBOL

Usually the first node indicates the catalog that points to where the
file is, but the average user isn't aware of any of that.

There are some advantages to what IBM does.
When you allocate a file, you must say how big the first chunk is
and if it grows, how big the next n allocations are.

This lets IBM create files with many blocks contiguous
The OS can read dozens or hundreds of adjacent blocks with 1 I/O
operation.

The declaration of size lets IBM throw an error if you use too much
space instead of filling disk and killing everything.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#213184

FromJohnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local>
Date2020-08-26 11:10 +0000
Message-ID<ri5fv4$1iqu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#213140
On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was pretty sure vi had a way.
>
> Whenever I hear someone ask how do I get this editor to show line
> numbers I know they are barking up the wrong tree.  You don't need
> to display line numbers if your editor understands error messages.

Not entirely true.

While vi does understand error messages, I find it very
useful to display error numbers, since I can craft
quick commands for those.

Do you want to move that block of code from here to
there?

  :34,42m17

this moves lines 34 to 42 at line 17.

Or just to move quickly to line 39, without a slow
scrolling [or using the mouse, which is disabled anyway
on my vi].

  :39

I keep line numbers all the time, as I'm quite
addicted to these workflows.

>> I can't really figure it, but sure it looks
>> complicated.  I don't understand what you mean by
>> "node" though: was the file name segmented?
>
> Yes, the filename can be up to 44 characters but it must consist of
> alphanumerics separated by periods.
>
> SYS1.SAMPLIB
> USER1.PROJECT.COBOL
>
> Usually the first node indicates the catalog that points to where the
> file is, but the average user isn't aware of any of that.
>
> There are some advantages to what IBM does.
> When you allocate a file, you must say how big the first chunk is
> and if it grows, how big the next n allocations are.

Hard to know in advance, sometimes!

> This lets IBM create files with many blocks contiguous
> The OS can read dozens or hundreds of adjacent blocks with 1 I/O
> operation.
>
> The declaration of size lets IBM throw an error if you use too much
> space instead of filling disk and killing everything.

This is nice though, given the limitation, so you don't
accidentally kill everything!

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#213185

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-08-26 08:15 -0400
Message-ID<ri5jok$gtu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#213184
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes:

> On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was pretty sure vi had a way.
>>
>> Whenever I hear someone ask how do I get this editor to show line
>> numbers I know they are barking up the wrong tree.  You don't need
>> to display line numbers if your editor understands error messages.
>
> Not entirely true.
>
> While vi does understand error messages, I find it very
> useful to display error numbers, since I can craft
> quick commands for those.
>
> Do you want to move that block of code from here to
> there?
>
>   :34,42m17
>
> this moves lines 34 to 42 at line 17.
>
> Or just to move quickly to line 39, without a slow
> scrolling [or using the mouse, which is disabled anyway
> on my vi].
>
>   :39
>
> I keep line numbers all the time, as I'm quite
> addicted to these workflows.

Yeah, not being a vi user I don't think I appreciated how many vi
commands use numbers.

With emacs I either hold down an arrow key, page down key, or move around
using ^s (search).

I have Emacs displaying the current line in the mode line but otherwise
never turn on line numbers.  There are Emacs command that use numbers
but it's usually a distraction to do the counting.  It's easier to hit
the line delete key 5 times than it is to look where you are, look where
you want to delete to, then subtract, type the number and the command.

>>> I can't really figure it, but sure it looks
>>> complicated.  I don't understand what you mean by
>>> "node" though: was the file name segmented?
>>
>> Yes, the filename can be up to 44 characters but it must consist of
>> alphanumerics separated by periods.
>>
>> SYS1.SAMPLIB
>> USER1.PROJECT.COBOL
>>
>> Usually the first node indicates the catalog that points to where the
>> file is, but the average user isn't aware of any of that.
>>
>> There are some advantages to what IBM does.
>> When you allocate a file, you must say how big the first chunk is
>> and if it grows, how big the next n allocations are.
>
> Hard to know in advance, sometimes!

Yes it is, but rough estimates work pretty well.
Over allocation isn't too bad.

You might allocate 1000 blocks in your primary extent but only need 100.
Overnight jobs will release the unused space.

>> This lets IBM create files with many blocks contiguous
>> The OS can read dozens or hundreds of adjacent blocks with 1 I/O
>> operation.
>>
>> The declaration of size lets IBM throw an error if you use too much
>> space instead of filling disk and killing everything.
>
> This is nice though, given the limitation, so you don't
> accidentally kill everything!

Yes it's a trade off.
Unix isn't completely helpless.
Quotas help.

Back when I was doing primary development on UNIX we'd have some user
let a log grow out of control and the system would start acting strange
and then things would get worse.  Tracking down the problem wasn't
always easy.

For just finding users and stuff that was using too much space I'd use

du | xdu

which would display a sort of bar chart starting at the directory du
was run in.  You could click on the largest directory and see the
next set of directories down.  You'd pretty quickly find where all
the big space consumers were.

Then we starting using NetApp filers.  NetApp filers had built in
backup with every directory containing a .snapshot directory with
3 or more backups for every file.  Those backups only took space
if they were different than the original.  Problem was, "du" would
navigate into those .snapshot directories and badly distort the space usage.

I had to download the source code for du and modify it to avoid
.snapshot directories.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#213190

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2020-08-26 14:51 +0000
Message-ID<0Gu1H.452053$DO2.374917@fx45.iad>
In reply to#213184
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> writes:
>On 2020-08-25, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was pretty sure vi had a way.
>>
>> Whenever I hear someone ask how do I get this editor to show line
>> numbers I know they are barking up the wrong tree.  You don't need
>> to display line numbers if your editor understands error messages.
>
>Not entirely true.
>
>While vi does understand error messages, I find it very
>useful to display error numbers, since I can craft
>quick commands for those.
>
>Do you want to move that block of code from here to
>there?
>
>  :34,42m17
>
>this moves lines 34 to 42 at line 17.

Why use line numbers?   Mark the start (ma) and end (mb), move
the cursor to the insert point and

  :'a,'bm.

If you need to duplicate a few lines, mark the start (ma), position
to the last line and

  :'a,.co.

If you need to reverse a section of code (e.g. when declaring C
bitfields in an #if/#else/#endif block testing for host endianness):

  :'a,.!tac

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