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Groups > alt.comp.software.thunderbird > #346

Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text

From Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
Newsgroups uk.tech.broadcast, alt.comp.software.thunderbird
Subject Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text
Date 2021-04-28 08:20 -0700
Message-ID <ietcpnFp26mU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <s67db6$1hk$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <iep1ruFtu60U2@mid.individual.net> <s67mic$cti$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <ieqrl3Fa1s9U1@mid.individual.net> <s69l2i$k11$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 4/27/2021 11:26 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 4/27/21 10:15 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> And all (almost all?) other languages.
> 
> I know that there are some languages that don't use the Left to Right /
> Top to Bottom scheme.


Left-to-right, yes, but that's irrelevant to what I said. I don't know 
of any languages that are not top-to-bottom; do you?


> 
> English used to use serpentine back and forth (left to right and then
> right to left and then left to right...) 


Boustrophedon, but I don't think English ever did that. Ancient Greek did.




> top to bottom before written
> English was standardized.
> 
>> My point is simply that if someone asks me a question like
>> 
>>               How old are you?
>> 
>> and I reply
>> 
>>               83.
>> 
>>               > How old are you?
>> 
>> even though it's illogical and wrong, it's *very* easy to read and 
>> understand the reply.
> 
> That example is easy.
> 
> 	25
> 
> 	> How old are you?
> 
> 	27
> 
> 	> How old is your older sister?
> 
> 	23
> 
> 	> How old is your older brother?
> 
> 	20
> 
> 	> How old is your younger brother?
> 
> 	5
> 
> 	> How long have you been at your job?
> 
> 	3
> 
> 	> How old is your niece?
> 
> Now, quickly, what question is 23 an answer to?


That's not top-posting, that's interspersed posting, and a weird 
combination of top-interspersed posting. I've never seen anyone do that.


> 
> Each pair of questions and answers, in their own vacuum is / can be
> largely independent of order.  But when you start having multiple pairs
> close to each other without clear separation can get quite confusing.
> Especially if there are more Q & A pairs than will fit on the screen.
> (I'll spare us all the time of adding about 20 more Q & A pairs.)
> 
>> Contrast that with
>> 
>>               83
>> 
>>               two screens full of quoted material ending with
>> 
>>               > How old are you?
>> 
>> *That* is very hard to read and understand the reply without scrolling 
>> all the way to end and then perhaps back up to reread the reply (unless 
>> you remember the question from whenever it was asked (which I seldom do).
> 
> Agreed.
> 
>> That's the reason why in my opinion, sufficient trimming is often more 
>> important than whether someone top posts or bottom posts
> 
> Trimming implies that there is content not directly related tot he
> reply.  A series of 20 questions and 20 associated answers is not
> subject to such trimming.  ;-)


Right. Trimming is not the answer to everything.


> 
>> As do I, as you can see from my reply here.
> 
> :-)
> 
>> Once again, my only point is that regardless of what you and I prefer, 
>> for simple replies to simple points that have been trimmed to fit on a 
>> single screen, it's not as important as it it sometime is in other cases.
> 
> I largely agree with your statement.  However, it fails to take into
> account the number of questions and answer pairings and how easy it is
> to conflate them between pairings.



No, it *does* take that into account. Note that I didn't say trimming 
always takes away the top-posting problem. I said "for simple replies to 
simple points that have been trimmed."


> 
>> And despite what some people say, as far as I'm concerned, that goes for 
>> e-mail as well as usenet posts. Top-posting is not a good way to do it.
> 
> I'll expand it to any written medium.  Probably any recorded medium
> (including audio and video).
> 
>> Of course. We basically agree on everything here except the minor (to 
>> me) point of a brief answer to a statement or point that all fits on a 
>> single screen. We agree that it's wrong, but disagree on how much of a 
>> problem it usually is.
> 
> I agree that full content, both question and answer, fitting on one
> screen can be largely indifferent.


Glad to hear it. That was almost my only point.


> Though I strongly prefer to always use a singular pattern that works in
> all cases; namely inline posting, in logical / chronological order.


As I said, so do I.



>> However, note that no program can put the cursor wherever you want it 
>> for inline posting.
> 
> I largely agre.
> 
> Though for short single Q / A messages, defaulting the cursor to below
> the Q is the proper location to start the A.


Yes. Again, I agree that's the right way to do it, but the wrong way 
doesn't matter very much "for simple replies to simple points that have 
been trimmed to fit on a single screen."


>> By the way, I might be wrong, but I think it was Microsoft that in its 
>> programs (Outlook and Outlook Express) started the habit of 
>> top-posting--something that many other programs copied and many people 
>> also copied, thinking that since their program puts the cursor there, 
>> that was the *correct* way to do it.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
>> Another by the way: every now and then I write to some come company, 
>> either asking a question or making a request, and their reply often 
>> contains a note warning me that if I don't don't top-post when replying 
>> to their reply, my message will be ignored. That always pisses me off, 
>> but I do as they say, since I wouldn't have written if I didn't think it 
>> was important.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> I recently ran into that while talking to support for something.  I
> ended up copying their points to above the "#REPLY ABOVE THIS LINE#" and
> using my traditional inline style of point / response.


I've several times thought about doing that, but I decided it was risky 
and didn't.


> I also trimmed what I thought was boiler plate between the #REPLY..."
> line and what looked like the final #Ticket#... line.

-- 
Ken

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Thread

Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 09:28 +0100
  Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 10:11 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:25 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:47 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 11:04 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:13 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:27 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 12:33 +0100
  Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:11 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:19 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 07:55 -0700
      Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-26 17:11 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 16:47 +0000
        Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 10:45 -0700
          Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Marc Auslander <marcausl@gmail.com> - 2021-04-26 14:04 -0400
          Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 18:20 +0000
            Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 11:44 -0700
              Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:02 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:49 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:39 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:15 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:26 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:20 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:37 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Laurence Taylor <laurence@nospam.plus.com> - 2021-04-28 21:40 +0100
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-28 22:01 +0100
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:19 +0100
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-28 02:29 +0000
                OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 16:14 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:42 -0700
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:42 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:07 -0700
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:37 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2021-04-28 16:59 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:45 -0600
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:50 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:57 -0600
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:10 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style Richmond <richmond@criptext.com> - 2021-04-28 20:33 +0100
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 14:31 -0600
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-04-28 13:38 -0700
                Re: OT: posting/emailing style Richmond <richmond@criptext.com> - 2021-04-28 21:35 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:29 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:01 -0600
          Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:28 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:57 -0700
              Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:56 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:32 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 10:59 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 10:26 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:28 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:23 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:50 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:51 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:15 -0700
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 11:48 -0600
                Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:58 -0700
      Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 20:00 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 12:25 -0700
          Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 16:26 -0500
      Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-27 05:07 +0000
    Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Bill H <bhtemp99@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2021-04-26 09:06 -0700
    Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 15:54 -0500
      Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 22:58 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 17:55 -0500

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