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Re: New version of my annotations to SRT

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: New version of my annotations to SRT
Date 2024-02-19 06:56 +0100
Message-ID <l3g8j8FpkgqU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <l38lo3Ffes0U1@mid.individual.net> <l3bcogFb2U1@mid.individual.net> <uqq2rl$c86g$1@dont-email.me> <l3dg6gFb848U1@mid.individual.net> <PImAN.9019594$ee1.6157599@fx16.ams4>

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Am 18.02.2024 um 13:28 schrieb Paul B. Andersen:
> Den 18.02.2024 05:47, skrev Thomas Heger:
>>> On 2024-02-17 09:36:42 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>>>
>>>> Am 16.02.2024 um 09:46 schrieb Athel Cornish-Bowden:
>>>>> On 2024-02-16 06:20:15 +0000, Thomas Heger said:
>>>>>> Paul b. Andersen wrote:
>>>>>>> Can you quote the sentence in question?
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sure:
>>>>>> page 22, roughly in the middle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We will now determine the kinetic energy of the electron. If an
>>>>>> electron moves from rest at the origin of co-ordinates of the
>>>>>> system K
>>>>>> along the axis of X under the action of an electrostatic force X,
>>>>>> ..."
>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this your translation? Is "the axis of X" what is normally
>>>>> called the
>>>>> x-axis in English? Maybe you could quote it in German so that someone
>>>>> who knows more German than I do can comment. Anyway, I agree that
>>>>> calling the abscissa axis the x-axis is not ideal, but it's very
>>>>> commonly done. In that case X is not a variable.
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually critizising a certain text, not the work of Einstein
>>>> per se.
>>>>
>>>> So, my topic is this particular English translation.
>
> You wrote:
>   "But Einstein gave this another kick and used the same symbol
>    twice with different meanings within a single sentence."
>
> Einstein didn't use X as the name of the X-axis in §10,
> he called it the  X-Axis.
> In the translation is the phrase "the axis of X" is used so
> the axis was NOT called X.

The names of the axes in k were defined in § 3 page 8 in the footnote 
with the dagger.

quote:

"Editor’s note:  In Einstein’s original  paper, the symbols (Ξ, H, Z) 
for the co-ordinates of the moving system k were introduced without 
explicitly defining them. In the 1923 English translation, (X, Y, Z) were 
used, creating an ambiguity between X co-ordinates in the fixed  system K 
and the parallel axis in moving system k. Here and in  subsequent 
references we use Ξ when referring to the axis of system k along which 
the system is translating with respect to K. "

As I am writing about this translation, I use this footnote as defintion.

This means:

the axes have names, which consist of single large letters (Latin in 
case of system K and Greek in case of system k)

the coordinates have also names, but with small letters.


Now:

'x-axis' is correct

'X' is also a valid name of the same x-axis.


But "Let the axes of X of the two systems coincide, ..." is wrong.

(from § 3, first paragraph)

This is so, because his definitions require Greek letters for the x-axis 
of system k.

But Einstein didn't use his own definitions and ocasionally called the 
x-axis of k 'X', while it had to be 'Xsi'.

This is no big deal, of course, but still wrong.

It was also very annoying for the reader (me in this case), because I 
had to marter my brain, if I wanted to find out, to which system a 
certain variable should actually belong.

It is therefore a serious error, if the relation to the meant system is 
not properly defined, because the main point of relativity is the 
relation between systems moving in respect to each other.

This would require a proper assignement of any used variable to one of 
these systems.

And that in turn would not allow any wrong variable names.


TH




> The English translation of the "single sentence" was NOT:
>   "If an electron moves from rest at the origin of
>    co-ordinates of the system K along X under the action of
>    an electrostatic force X .."
>
> The sentence wouldn't even have made sense if X had been used
> as name of the X-Axis.
> X is explicitly defined to be an "electrostatic force"
>
> Since you have thoroughly scrutinized the text and failed to find
> an example of "use of the same symbol twice with different meanings
> within a single sentence", we can conclude that no such example exists.
>
> Well done, and don't try to flee from the fact.
>
>>
>>
>> I also didn't want to discuss relativity per se or the validity of the
>> pyhsical content of this paper.
>>
>> It's pointless, anyhow, because a paper with 400+ errors in it could
>> hardly be used for anything of practical value.
>
> It's rather 400+ cases of your failure to understand the text.
>
> Let's review some of the alleged errors.
>
> You, Thomas Heger, claimed:
>   "Einstein's variable names were EXTREMELY annoying!
>    "He had eight different uses of the letter 'A'."
>
> And you list them up:
>   His [Einstein's] uses of 'A' were:
> #1: as name of a point in space
> #2: as name of the local time at point A as 'A-time'
> #3: for one end of a flying rod
> #4: as index of the time value t_A
> #5: as area
> #6: in 'electric power of deflection' A_e
> #7: in 'magnetic power of deflection' A_m
> #8: as (only!) internal reference 'A'
>
> This is actually too stupid to comment, but since
> you are too ignorant to understand how stupid it is,
> I will do it anyway:
>
> #1: Right.
>      In §1 the symbol 'A' is explicitly defined: "the point A of space",
>      and this is the only meaning of 'A' in §1 to and including §5.
>
> #2: "Einstein uses the symbol 'A' to mean 'A-time'" doesn't make sense.
>
> #3: A is the name of the spatial point where one end of the rod
>      is positioned.
>
> #4: "Einstein uses the symbol 'A' to mean 't_A'" :-D
>      Doesn't make sense.
>
> #5: 'A' is never used as area in this paper.
>
> #6: "Einstein uses the symbol 'A' to mean 'A_e'" :-D
> #7: "Einstein uses the symbol 'A' to mean 'A_m'" :-D
>
> However,
> In §7 the symbol 'A' is explicitly defined:
>   "we call the amplitude of the electric or magnetic force A"
>    and this is the only meaning of 'A' in §7 to and including §10.
>
> #8: "Einstein uses the symbol 'A' to mean (A) " :-D
>     The symbol for numbering of equations '(A)' is not
>     equal to the symbol 'A', like the symbol '(1)' is not
>     equal to the symbol '1'.
>
>
> So there are only two different meanings of 'A' in the paper.
> In §1 to and including §5 'A' is a point in space.
> In §7 to and including §10 'A' is the amplitude of
> the electric or magnetic force.
>
>

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Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-11 11:00 +0100
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-13 07:44 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-13 14:50 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-14 08:17 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-14 11:05 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-14 19:05 +0200
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 18:41 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-15 06:58 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-15 01:21 -0500
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-16 06:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-16 13:50 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Josey Forakis Stamatelos <ks@osfisek.gr> - 2024-02-16 20:19 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-17 10:28 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-14 13:47 -0500
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-14 13:59 -0500
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 19:12 +0000
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-15 06:16 +0000
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-13 13:40 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-13 18:18 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 01:46 +0000
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 18:12 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 18:59 +0000
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:07 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:09 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 19:21 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:26 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 20:23 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 21:26 +0100
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT film.art@gmail.com (JanPB) - 2024-02-13 16:25 +0000
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-14 08:34 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-14 21:28 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-15 07:10 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-15 11:32 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-15 19:04 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-16 07:20 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-16 09:43 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-16 09:46 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-17 10:36 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-17 12:47 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 14:33 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-17 16:40 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-17 15:55 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 17:16 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 06:48 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-18 10:21 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:00 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-17 15:13 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 17:15 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-17 17:17 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 06:25 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:05 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-18 12:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-18 22:05 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-18 21:36 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-18 22:59 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 05:47 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-18 01:07 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-18 08:15 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Preston Voß von Grimmelshausen <rsqt@osonevnpv.de> - 2024-02-18 12:35 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:08 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Royal Iñíguez Ortega <ygerr@oratoytra.es> - 2024-02-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-18 13:28 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-19 06:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-19 11:35 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-19 21:47 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Cheng Huang Zhong <sksn@nnoghz.cn> - 2024-02-19 21:59 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-20 09:01 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-18 11:30 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Wilbert Oláh Barabás <rfbml@otrb.hu> - 2024-02-18 19:39 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-19 07:02 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-19 13:31 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-20 09:11 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-21 11:52 +0200
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-16 11:53 +0200
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-16 13:59 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-02-14 00:11 -0800

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