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Re: New version of my annotations to SRT

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Am 15.02.2024 um 12:19 schrieb MaciejWozniak:
> Volney wrote:
>
>> On 2/15/2024 12:58 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 14.02.2024 um 18:41 schrieb Python:
>>>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> But even if there where a gigantic watch (maintained by the
>>>>> Man-in-the-Moon), that clock would show Moon-time in Moon-time-units.
>>>>>
>>>>> That watch would be very hard to interpret, because it is certainly
>>>>> not synchronized with the birth of Christ and will most likely use
>>>>> different units.
>>>>>
>>>>> But supposed we could actually read the values, we certainly would not
>>>>> want to subtract such values from an Earth-based time-values.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, the value t_B MUST be based on Earth-time and measured in
>>>>> Earth-time-units.
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> A clock on the Moon cannot show t_B, because the man-in-the-Moon is
>>>>> not baptised and the birth of Christ unknown there.
>>>>
>>>> *facepalm* Is there any limit to your craziness? This is
>>>> not even remotely related to anything Einstein wrote.
>>>>
>>>> Clock A and B are clocks involved in a physic apparatus
>>>> it is absolutely stupid to assume that clock B would be
>>>> operated by unknown aliens on Alpha Centaury (as you
>>>> ever did) or the Moon, with unknowns units or origins.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you try to communicate over cosmological distances and attempt to
>>> synchronize clocks at both ends, you could certainly face the
>>> problem, that at the other end of such communications are 'aliens'.
>>>
>>> Actually all other assumptions are rather strange and in my view far
>>> stranger than the assumption of aliens.
>>>
>>> But WHO sits at the far end of a long distance communication is
>>> patently irrelevant in the context of SRT, anyhow.
>>>
>>> SRT uses a certain 'backdrop', which is a starless void without gravity.
>>>
>>> Through this dark space spaceships drift 'inertially'.
>>>
>>> This not really real, but a possible assumption for 'thought
>>> experiments'.
>>>
>>> If so, you could also assume aliens (at not additional cost).
>>>
>>> But if you prefer Earth-based aliens, you could also assume, that all
>>> spaceships mentioned are owned by NASA and have all exactly similar
>>> clocks onboard of their ships.
>>>
>>> But in any case:
>>>
>>> you need to make measurements of the delay, if you like to
>>> synchronize clocks.
>>>
>>> (In case of alien aliens, you need to negotiate time units, too.)
>>>
>>> This is easy, if both ships involved would not move in respect to
>>> each other.
>>>
>>> In this case (and only in this case !) Einstein's equation is true
>>> and you could cut the two-way travel in half and get time t_B by
>>> deviding t'_A-t_A by two.
>>>
>>> The problem is here, that t'_A is later than t_B, hence the aliens at
>>> the far end cannot possibly know it. Therefore, YOU need to calculate
>>> t_B and send a signal with a coded time value back to B.
>>>
>>> This signal (the one from here at A to point B with the time-value
>>> t_B), needs to be corrected by subtracting the delay from t_B and
>>> coding the result into the signal.
>>>
>>> That is another reason why you should know the delay.
>>>
>>> But Einstein didn't even mention the delay-problem with a single word.
>>>
>>>
>> Einstein explicitly stated the twp clocks are IDENTICAL.
>
> And you, stupid Mike, explicitely stated that IDENTIOCAL
> clocks are some "Newton mode". You're such an agnorant idiot...

'Identical' clocks (actually mentioned were watches) are mechanically 
the same.

But watches of 1905 were adjustable in the rate of ticks, hence could be 
synchronized to the local environment.

That's why it is complicated to synchronize clocks.

First you need to establish an agreement about the time units and tick 
rates.

Theses tick rates already differ with hight (already on planet Earth).

This would require (already on Earth) agrements about the length of the 
second.

To do this we could use some sort of 'master clock', located on or near 
sea-level.

This master station would send out radio signals with timing information 
and all other clocks can adjust themselves to these signals.

But this would still require to know the delay, which is caused by the 
finite speed of light.


A radio signals travel about 7.5 times round the globe in one second.

Since half of an equator length is the maximal distance you could have 
on Earth, you could have a maximum of discrepancy of 1/14 of a second.

This is a very large discrepancy for precision timing purposes, hence 
needs to be corrected.

This is actually simple: simply add the delay to the coded time, which 
is coming with the signal from the master clock.

But you need to know the delay in the first place, if you like to add it.

But for uncertain reasons Einstein didn't mention this, even if 
synchronization over long distances was his topic.

TH

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Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-11 11:00 +0100
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-13 07:44 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-13 14:50 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-14 08:17 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-14 11:05 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-14 19:05 +0200
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 18:41 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-15 06:58 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-15 01:21 -0500
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-16 06:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-16 13:50 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Josey Forakis Stamatelos <ks@osfisek.gr> - 2024-02-16 20:19 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-17 10:28 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-14 13:47 -0500
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-14 13:59 -0500
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 19:12 +0000
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-15 06:16 +0000
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-13 13:40 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-13 18:18 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 01:46 +0000
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 18:12 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 18:59 +0000
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:07 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:09 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 19:21 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 20:26 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-14 20:23 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-14 21:26 +0100
  Re: New version of my annotations to SRT film.art@gmail.com (JanPB) - 2024-02-13 16:25 +0000
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-14 08:34 +0100
      Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-14 21:28 +0100
        Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-15 07:10 +0100
          Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-15 11:32 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-15 19:04 +0100
            Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-16 07:20 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-16 09:43 +0100
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-16 09:46 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-17 10:36 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-17 12:47 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 14:33 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-17 16:40 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-17 15:55 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 17:16 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 06:48 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-02-18 10:21 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:00 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-17 15:13 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-17 17:15 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-17 17:17 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 06:25 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:05 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-18 12:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-18 22:05 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-18 21:36 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-18 22:59 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-18 05:47 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-18 01:07 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT mlwozniak@wp.pl (MaciejWozniak) - 2024-02-18 08:15 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Preston Voß von Grimmelshausen <rsqt@osonevnpv.de> - 2024-02-18 12:35 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-18 13:08 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Royal Iñíguez Ortega <ygerr@oratoytra.es> - 2024-02-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-18 13:28 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-19 06:56 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-19 11:35 +0200
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-19 21:47 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Cheng Huang Zhong <sksn@nnoghz.cn> - 2024-02-19 21:59 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-20 09:01 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-18 11:30 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Wilbert Oláh Barabás <rfbml@otrb.hu> - 2024-02-18 19:39 +0000
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-19 07:02 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-19 13:31 -0500
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-20 09:11 +0100
                Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-21 11:52 +0200
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-16 11:53 +0200
              Re: New version of my annotations to SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-16 13:59 +0100
    Re: New version of my annotations to SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-02-14 00:11 -0800

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