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Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :)

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Well, you don't seem to have any testable theories at all, Slider.
My theories could all be thoroughly tested in sleep labs.

Actually, I do still see some problems with my own theories
and I believe it would take careful experimental designs
to tease it all out more thoroughly.

***

Here are some clinical notes regarding WILD taken from a 1990 paper
by LaBerge:

"Compared with DILDs, WILDs were more frequently immediately
preceded by physiological indications of awakening"
(that's how he formally defines them: LD initiated soon after
the physiological indications of awakening)

Here's the note I find most interesting:
"Momentary intrusions of wakefulness occur very commonly during the
normal course of REM sleep, and Schwartz and Lefebvre (1973)
proposed that lucid dreaming occurs during these microawakenings.
However, LaBerge, Nagel, Taylor, Dement, & Zarcone’s (1981) and
LaBerge et al.’s (1986) data indicate that, while lucid dreams do
not take place during interludes of wakefulness within REM periods,
a minority of lucid dreams (WILDs) are *initiated* from these moments
of transitory arousal and continue in subsequent undisturbed REM sleep."
[*emphasis mine*]

So, another possibility is that these realistic 'false awakening
initiated' LDs that I have MAY be initiated during such physiological
"micro-awakenings". And if that proved to be the case then LaBerge
would have technically labeled them as WILDs. I don't know for sure
that this is what happens with me, but it's a distinct possibility.
It would take sleep lab work to figure it out.

***

This clinical note is taken from a 2015 paper by Nicolas Zink
& Reinhard Pietrowsky, Heinrich-Heine-University, Düsseldorf:

"Levitan, LaBerge and Dole (1992) found two ways to start a lucid
dream. First and most likely was the “dream-initiated lucid dream”
(DILD), in which the dreamer acquires awareness of being in a dream
while fully involved in it. In the second case, the “wake initiated
lucid dreams” (WILD), the dreamer awakes from a dream and then
returns to the dream state with unbroken awareness. Stumbrys,
Erlacher, Schädlich, and Schredl (2012) revised the methodological
quality of studies using cognitive techniques like mnemonic induced
lucid dreams (MILD), reflection/reality testing, intention,
autosuggestion, Tholey´s combined techniques, post-hypnotic
suggestion, alpha feedback, dream re-entry and other eclectic
approaches to induce LD. They showed that none of these induction
techniques had been shown to induce lucid dreams reliably and
consistently, although some like MILD, reflection/reality testing,
intention, and Tholey´s combined techniques look promising."

Two things I want to emphasize. First, NO technique tested was
"shown to induce LD reliably and consistently". And second,
one of the techniques is called "intention". The "intention" method
is even one of those said to look promising. :)

So I may have to go read a bit more on what has been done with that.

***

Here is a Men's Health article on methods of LD from 2017:
http://tinyurl.com/y8wf6eu2

Notice, from the results:

"The researchers also found that those who only practiced MILD and
were able to fall asleep within five minutes of completing the
technique (after the first five hours of sleep) had a lucid dream
success rate of nearly 46 percent after one week of practicing."

Hmm. Notice that the MILD method specifically uses *intention*. :)
And wow - a success rate of nearly 46% after a week of practice
among those who can go back to sleep fast. That's damned high!

Do you think WILD can ever beat that MILD success rate, Slider? :)
Personally, I doubt it.

"The MILD practice, like WBTB, involves waking up after 5 initial
hours of sleep then focusing on the *intention* to remember you are
dreaming prior to falling back to sleep."
[*emphasis mine*]

***

Here's an article on WILD that was written just a couple of months ago:
http://tinyurl.com/y8fsmz79 

This dude uses a completely different method. He also notes 
that WILDs "can be quite difficult to achieve since they rely on
extreme physical relaxation to put the body to sleep while the mind
remains awake". 

***

Below is a site promoting LaBerge's original method for WILD.
It also lists multiple WILD methods by Charlie Morley (two of
which are intriguing and one mentions setting one's *intent*).

These methods all utilize WBTB.

http://tinyurl.com/y7o6tmqp 

Something that interests me about LaBerge's original WILD method
is the statement:

"The dream scene is usually created out of your memory of your
bedroom or wherever you are sleeping. Sometimes you can send your
awareness to another dream scene straight away, but generally without
any other kind of imagery at work, you are going to find yourself
lying in a dream version of your own bed."

All I can say is that I had LOTS of LD experiences that involved
either false awakenings into my own bedroom or finding myself lying
in a dream version of my own bed. That happened to me over and over.

***

One of the WILD methods Castaneda gave us was quite unusual.
I didn't like it much so I may not even describe it perfectly.
(If anyone out there recalls it differently, feel free to correct.)

Carlos had us sit on the floor touching the soles of our feet together
and then lean our head over in the direction of our feet to see how
close our forehead came to the floor. Then he had us each cut little
wooden rods, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 inch in diameter, cut to such a length
that you could place the base of the rod on the floor and lower your
head to touch the other end of the rod, so that the tip of the rod
rested gently on your forehead on what some think is the 'third eye',
placing a little pressure on this spot. You were supposed to intend
to turn off your internal talk and then sit like this with your
forehead on the tip of the rod until you entered dreaming.

I never succeeded at this even once and it was an uncomfortable
position. I doubt if I even tried it as many as 10 times because
I was already good at doing dreaming in my own way.  I may still
have that cut wooden rod around here somewhere. LOL. :)

***

Kimberly Mascaro's 2018 book, 'Extraordinary Dreams' mentions
her own success with WILD. She first talks about LaBerge's method.
She specifically says "entering a dream in this manner is rare"
but she also adds: "the technique has worked for me on a number
of occasions".

***

Just to confirm what I said before, LaBerge's FAQ includes the 
statement: "Wake-initiated lucid dreams (WILDs) were three times
more likely to be labeled "OBEs" than dream-initiated lucid dreams."

***

This is a description of Paul Tholey's "combined technique" for LD:
http://tinyurl.com/yaffqmqp 

Step 2 in his process is all about Intention. A particular part
of it that caught my eye:

"A variation of this approach is for the dreamer to set an intention
to carry out a specific activity in a dream... It is up to the dreamer
to choose which activity he will perform... The activity may be...
a 'reality check' type action, such as looking at your hands."

Wow. There it is. The very method CC says 'dJ' had him use.
And the method I myself used over and over. Very interesting.

.

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Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-10 21:27 +0100
  sleeping & dreaming feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 13:36 -0700
    Re: sleeping & dreaming slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-10 22:08 +0100
      Re: sleeping & dreaming feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 14:18 -0700
  Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-10 22:41 +0100
    gas yourself ahole feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 09:19 -0700
      Re: gas yourself ahole slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-13 18:19 +0100
    Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-15 11:39 +0100
      Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 10:50 -0700
        Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-15 21:11 +0100
          Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 17:18 -0700
            Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-16 04:10 +0100
              Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 09:30 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-16 21:03 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:15 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 16:10 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-17 02:47 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-17 15:09 +0100
                ADA feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 07:46 -0700
                Re: ADA slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-17 18:16 +0100
                and in the end ........... feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 11:30 -0700
                Re: and in the end ........... slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-17 20:41 +0100
                Re: and in the end ........... "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:38 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:33 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-18 03:42 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 13:02 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-19 01:30 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 17:55 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-19 02:25 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 21:05 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Donovan" <jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 23:07 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-19 12:02 +0100
                the horses are at the starting gate feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 07:35 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:00 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-19 21:39 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 13:57 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-20 08:52 +0100
                good day at the track feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 08:05 -0700
                Re: good day at the track slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-20 20:19 +0100
                Re: good day at the track feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 12:32 -0700
                let it ride bitch feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 12:45 -0700
                Re: let it ride bitch slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-20 21:12 +0100
                Re: let it ride bitch feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 21:17 -0700
                Re: let it ride bitch slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-21 09:55 +0100
                Re: let it ride bitch feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 07:28 -0700
                Re: let it ride bitch slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-21 16:03 +0100
                Re: good day at the track slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-20 20:56 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:55 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-21 21:48 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 15:00 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-21 23:13 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 15:30 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-21 23:57 +0100
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 08:24 -0700
                Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 14:15 -0700
                fucking wake up feewilly <allreadydun@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:24 -0700
                Re: fucking wake up "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 17:07 -0700
                Re: fucking wake up slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-19 01:42 +0100
                Re: fucking wake up "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 17:56 -0700
                Re: fucking wake up slider <slider@anashram.org> - 2018-08-19 02:06 +0100
                Re: fucking wake up thang ornerythinchus <thangolossus@gmail.com> - 2018-09-06 10:17 +0800
      Re: conformation/validation? absolutely! :) slider <slider@anashram.com> - 2018-08-15 22:22 +0100

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