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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #597999 > unrolled thread

climate change

Started bycarl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com>
First post2022-12-21 14:19 -0800
Last post2023-01-13 16:12 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 290 — 24 participants

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Contents

  climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 14:19 -0800
    Re: climate change Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 22:45 +0000
    Re: climate change Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 22:54 +0000
      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 09:49 -0800
        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 10:07 -0800
          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 11:08 -0800
    Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-22 12:59 -0800
      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 13:05 -0800
        Re: climate change Rico Amato <toaa@araocco.rt> - 2022-12-22 22:04 +0000
        Re: climate change Rico Amato <toaa@araocco.rt> - 2022-12-22 22:14 +0000
        Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-22 14:26 -0800
          Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 18:38 -0800
            Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-22 19:03 -0800
              Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-23 11:10 -0800
                Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-23 13:48 -0800
                  Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-23 15:30 -0800
                    Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-23 20:25 -0800
                      Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-27 12:12 -0800
                        Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-27 15:41 -0800
                          Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-27 16:40 -0800
                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-27 21:10 -0600
                            Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-28 12:24 -0800
                              Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-31 09:33 +0100
                                Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-31 00:44 -0800
                                  Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-01 10:00 +0100
                      Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-28 07:56 +0100
                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 09:01 +0100
                          Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 16:38 -0800
                            Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 16:40 -0800
                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-29 18:54 -0600
                              Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 11:14 +0100
                                Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-30 10:57 -0600
                                  Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 10:48 -0800
                                    Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 11:01 -0800
                                      Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 11:15 -0800
                                        Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 11:57 -0800
                                          Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 13:03 -0800
                                            Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 14:40 -0800
                                              Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 15:25 -0800
                                                Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-30 19:02 -0600
                                        Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-30 18:58 -0600
                                      Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-31 09:09 +0100
                                  Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-31 09:22 +0100
                                    Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-31 15:42 -0600
                                      Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-31 14:26 -0800
                                        Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-31 14:43 -0800
                                          Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-31 15:42 -0800
                                            Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-01 09:43 +0100
                                            Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-01 16:49 -0800
                                      Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-01 09:28 +0100
                                        Re: climate change Doodnath Sarti <ttha@dnhnahan.nh> - 2023-01-01 08:49 +0000
                                          Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-01 06:21 -0600
                                            Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 15:56 -0800
                                              Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 16:02 -0800
                                                Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 16:19 -0800
                                                  Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 17:10 -0800
                                                    Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 17:56 -0800
                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-02 03:36 -0500
                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 07:36 +0100
                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 12:24 -0800
                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 12:27 -0800
                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 13:30 -0800
                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 13:46 -0800
                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 13:48 -0800
                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 17:14 -0800
                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 17:29 -0800
                                                                  Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-03 18:13 -0800
                                                                    Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-04 10:12 +0100
                                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-04 12:59 -0500
                                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-05 07:40 +0100
                                                              Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-04 11:17 -0800
                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-04 11:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-04 14:40 -0800
                                                                  Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-05 14:40 -0800
                                                          Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-04 12:51 -0500
                                                          Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-04 23:06 -0600
                                                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-05 00:13 -0600
                                                            Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-05 08:01 +0100
                                                              Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-05 11:47 -0600
                                                                Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-05 10:17 -0800
                                                                Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-05 16:33 -0600
                                                                Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-07 09:42 +0100
                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-07 15:21 -0800
                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-07 15:47 -0800
                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-07 15:58 -0800
                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-07 16:04 -0800
                                                                        Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-07 18:31 -0800
                                                                  Re: climate change Luigi Tumicelli <llei@cumiicli.lu> - 2023-01-08 13:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-08 15:16 -0800
                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-08 16:49 -0800
                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-08 17:09 -0800
                                                                    Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-09 08:53 +0100
                                                                      Re: climate change Luigi Tumicelli <llei@cumiicli.lu> - 2023-01-09 08:30 +0000
                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-09 10:11 -0800
                                                                          Re: climate change Luigi Tumicelli <llei@cumiicli.lu> - 2023-01-09 18:58 +0000
                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-09 12:47 -0800
                                                                          Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-09 22:18 -0800
                                                                          Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-10 15:49 +0100
                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-10 10:58 -0800
                                                                              Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-10 21:45 +0100
                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-10 12:58 -0800
                                                                                  Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-10 22:12 +0100
                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-10 14:26 -0800
                                                                                    Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-10 21:56 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-10 22:17 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-10 22:32 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-11 01:34 -0500
                                                                                        Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-10 22:49 -0800
                                                                                          Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-11 12:44 -0500
                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 10:53 -0800
                                                                                            Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 11:54 -0800
                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 12:03 -0800
                                                                                                Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 12:39 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 14:21 -0800
                                                                                                Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-11 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 14:20 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 14:23 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-12 10:23 +0100
                                                                                                Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-12 03:46 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 00:58 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 16:53 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 17:07 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 15:02 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 15:09 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-12 17:57 -0600
                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 16:26 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-12 18:32 -0600
                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 17:23 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 17:31 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 18:06 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 18:12 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 19:20 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-13 11:39 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-12 20:44 -0600
                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 18:52 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-13 04:06 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 01:20 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-13 12:04 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 10:20 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 12:11 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 12:23 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 12:27 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: climate change Kobie Locatelli <be@cliietik.oo> - 2023-01-15 11:38 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: climate change Kobie Locatelli <be@cliietik.oo> - 2023-01-15 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-15 13:14 -0600
                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-15 13:10 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-15 13:14 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-15 14:48 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-15 16:44 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-16 17:44 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 12:36 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 13:31 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 13:39 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 14:19 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-17 00:55 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 22:24 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-17 09:58 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-17 13:16 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-17 10:58 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-18 16:55 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 12:07 -0800
                                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 12:11 -0800
                                                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 12:18 -0800
                                                                                                                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-19 15:18 -0600
                                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 13:51 -0800
                                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 13:52 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-19 18:47 -0600
                                                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 10:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-20 14:47 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 21:36 -0800
                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-20 14:14 -0600
                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 12:22 -0800
                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-20 19:40 -0600
                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-21 01:54 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-21 20:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-21 15:26 -0800
                                                                                                                                            Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-21 21:46 -0600
                                                                                                                                            Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-22 12:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:37 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-23 23:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:45 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:50 -0800
                                                                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 13:52 -0800
                                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-23 17:24 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 14:35 -0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 14:37 -0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-24 08:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change Faustino Biondo <uinn@bfotboia.nt> - 2023-01-25 19:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-26 16:40 -0800
                                                                                                                                                            Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-27 08:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-27 14:31 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-28 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-30 07:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-30 07:38 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-31 09:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-31 13:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-02-03 11:13 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-02-03 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-02-03 19:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-02-04 21:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-02-05 12:06 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-02-05 22:06 -0800
                                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-23 16:55 -0600
                                                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 16:52 -0800
                                                                                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <carleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 17:36 -0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 18:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-23 23:10 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-17 09:57 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-17 10:28 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-17 16:20 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-18 00:10 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-18 16:57 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-19 11:57 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-16 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-16 15:40 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: climate change Edurardo De felice <eduu@eiudece.co> - 2023-01-17 13:49 +0000
                                                                                        Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-11 10:36 +0100
                                                                                          Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 02:09 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-11 10:36 +0100
                                                                                        Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 02:06 -0800
                                                                                Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-11 11:29 +0100
                                                                                  Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-11 13:00 -0500
                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 10:44 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-11 11:17 -0800
                                                                                    Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-11 10:51 -0800
                                                                                      Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-11 14:36 -0600
                                                                                    Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-12 08:09 +0100
                                                                                      Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-12 03:55 -0500
                                                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-13 08:11 +0100
                                                                                          Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-13 13:12 +0100
                                                                                            Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 04:41 -0800
                                                                                              Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-13 16:11 +0100
                                                                                                Re: climate change Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 08:54 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: climate change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-01-13 21:52 +0100
                                                                                          Re: climate change Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-13 11:21 -0500
                                                                                            Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-14 09:54 +0100
                                                                                              Re: climate change Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2023-01-14 10:07 +0100
                                                                                              Re: climate change Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 12:03 -0800
                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 12:24 -0800
                                                                                                Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 12:26 -0800
                                                                                                Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-15 08:11 +0100
                                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-10 07:18 +0100
                                                    Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-02 08:06 +0100
                                                      Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-02 10:22 -0600
                                                        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 07:27 +0100
                                                      Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-02 10:43 -0600
                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 14:54 -0800
                                                        Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 14:57 -0800
                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 15:03 -0800
                                                          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 15:10 -0800
                                                            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 17:29 -0800
                                                Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 16:20 -0800
                                                  Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-01 20:24 -0600
                                                Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-01 19:27 -0600
                                                  Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 18:02 -0800
                                                    Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 18:20 -0800
                                                      Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-01 20:48 -0600
                                                        Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-01 21:29 -0600
                                                          Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-02 08:28 +0100
                                                    Re: climate change Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-01-01 20:29 -0600
                                              Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-01 19:26 -0600
                                        Re: climate change whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-01-01 06:16 -0600
            Re: climate change "kellehe...@gmail.com" <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> - 2022-12-23 01:59 -0800
            Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-28 08:10 +0100
              Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 11:34 -0800
                Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 08:45 +0100
              Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 11:47 -0800
                Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 12:18 -0800
              Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-28 12:34 -0800
                Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 13:06 -0800
                  Re: climate change thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 15:29 -0800
              Re: climate change Santos Anselmetti <ttln@niitstsm.sa> - 2022-12-28 23:33 +0000
    Re: climate change Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-01-05 20:08 +1100
      Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-05 16:17 -0800
        Re: climate change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-06 08:11 +0100
          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-06 11:29 -0800
          Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-06 11:30 -0800
            Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-06 13:21 -0800
              Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-06 14:20 -0800
          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-06 14:09 -0800
            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-06 14:29 -0800
    Re: climate change George Hammond <ghammond928@gmail.com> - 2023-01-12 23:45 -0800
      Re: climate change Otto Fiscella <tfit@tiselelc.it> - 2023-01-13 16:06 +0000
        Re: climate change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-01-13 12:03 -0800
          Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 12:08 -0800
          Re: climate change Otto Fiscella <tfit@tiselelc.it> - 2023-01-13 21:10 +0000
            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 16:12 -0800
            Re: climate change carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2023-01-13 16:12 -0800

Page 12 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 15  Next page →


#599435

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-01-11 10:36 +0100
Message-ID<1q4e0wp.w3l9u11tgi3odN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#599423
Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 22:12:57 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 12:45:06 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If the stars of the constellations are always moving, how do you determine
> > > Greenwich time. Ol Chap. Jolly good show. God save the King.
> > Are you really this dumb, or are you just pretending? 
> > 
> > Time on Earth is determined using atomic clocks, 
> > adjusted by leap seconds to keep in sync with the sun, 
> > (for the forseeable future) 
> 
> Surely it's not determined by proper idiocies  of
> your bunch of idiots.

Of course it is. Computing TAI, and hence UTC,
takes relativistic corrections to the readings
of the participating atomic clocks into account.
(and has been doing this for fifty years by now)

It is just that you are completely ignorant of how it is done,

Jan

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#599437

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-11 02:06 -0800
Message-ID<b57ee576-3e00-4e25-8998-ee96c5796a7en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599435
On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 10:36:49 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> > On Tuesday, 10 January 2023 at 22:12:57 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > > carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 12:45:06 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > If the stars of the constellations are always moving, how do you determine 
> > > > Greenwich time. Ol Chap. Jolly good show. God save the King. 
> > > Are you really this dumb, or are you just pretending? 
> > > 
> > > Time on Earth is determined using atomic clocks, 
> > > adjusted by leap seconds to keep in sync with the sun, 
> > > (for the forseeable future) 
> > 
> > Surely it's not determined by proper idiocies of 
> > your bunch of idiots.
> Of course it is. Computing TAI, and hence UTC, 
> takes relativistic corrections to the readings 

Of course it is not, of course you don't know what
your "proper" is, ask your fellow idiots -  Shit's "proper "
means no corrections.


It is just that you are completely ignorant of anything.

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#599439

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2023-01-11 11:29 +0100
Message-ID<k27hctFns7mU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599396
Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>
> Yes, and all constellations.
>
> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure parallaxes
> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>
> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
> far into the past and the future.
>

10000 years is quite far in the past.

But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?


TH

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#599450

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-01-11 13:00 -0500
Message-ID<tpmtfi$viq5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#599439
On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>
>> Yes, and all constellations.
>>
>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure parallaxes
>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>>
>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
>> far into the past and the future.
>>
> 
> 10000 years is quite far in the past.

The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is 
what we see today when looking at the sky.

A star that distant will be seen to move extremely slowly even if its 
own motion in the galaxy is fast.

A certain quasar, bright but billions of light years away, is considered 
a reference "stationary" source, others are considered to "move" (or 
not) relative to it. At such a distance motion would be undetectable.
> 
> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?

The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict 
constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future 
appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.), 
"predict" past appearances.

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#599456

Fromcarl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-11 10:44 -0800
Message-ID<a282600f-3ebb-4d48-a481-35f204b1b5e6n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599450
The greenhouse gas theory is based on infrared light resonating between the surface of the Earth and the upper atmosphere (ozone layer?) but the ozone layer is transparent which would inhibit the resonates of the infrared radiation that is said to be causing the greenhouse gas effect.

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#599459

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2023-01-11 11:17 -0800
Message-ID<63BF0B4F.3AFD@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#599456
carl eto wrote:
> 
> The greenhouse gas theory is based on infrared light resonating between the surface of the Earth and the upper atmosphere (ozone layer?) but the ozone layer is transparent which would inhibit the resonates of the infrared radiation that is said to be causing the greenhouse gas effect.


should i bring my umbrella out to work today???? i cannot figure out
your weather report...



-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

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#599457

Fromcarl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-11 10:51 -0800
Message-ID<ca0c7ca8-983e-4dae-ac1f-9037e7784494n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599450
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:00:32 AM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder: 
> >> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past? 
> >> 
> >> Yes, and all constellations. 

How do you determine Greenwich time, if the stars are in motion. Also, is not the length of a day determine by the stars positions; consequently, the length of an hour, minute and second? This paper recaptures time (Greenwich time) and space (astronomy) from Einstein's special relativity. Cheers.

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#599464

Fromwhodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Date2023-01-11 14:36 -0600
Message-ID<k28kv5Ft8nvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599457
On 1/11/2023 12:51 PM, carl eto wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:00:32 AM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and all constellations.
> 
> How do you determine Greenwich time, if the stars are in motion. Also, is not the length of a day determine by the stars positions; consequently, the length of an hour, minute and second? This paper recaptures time (Greenwich time) and space (astronomy) from Einstein's special relativity. Cheers.

Why are you asking here? If you want the information don't
you think a better approach would be to go to the people who
are actually involved in establishing earth time. This is a
place for discussion and here you will get multiple dissenting
opinions on how long it takes to cook an egg. There is never
consensus about anything here.

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#599487

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2023-01-12 08:09 +0100
Message-ID<k29q0mF43qbU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599450
Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney:
> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>>
>>> Yes, and all constellations.
>>>
>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure parallaxes
>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>>>
>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
>>> far into the past and the future.
>>>
>>
>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
>
> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
> what we see today when looking at the sky.


I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past' 
and does not reflect a real thing.

We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars 
we see in remote history.

So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant. 
What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we 
cannot see.

But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we could 
figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so forth 
of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine 
reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today.
...

>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
>
> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
> "predict" past appearances.


No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor from 
any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but also of 
different age.


The picture we receive from the night sky today is 'layered in time', 
because further away means also longer ago.

So, we can see stars today together, which had never existed at the same 
time, but millions of years apart.

Therefore, the picture in the night sky does not reflect reality and 
never did.

But we could try to figure out something closer to reality. But that is 
very difficult and only possible for a certain time in the past.


TH

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#599495

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-01-12 03:55 -0500
Message-ID<tpohtg$17nib$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#599487
On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney:
>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and all constellations.
>>>>
>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure 
>>>> parallaxes
>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>>>>
>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
>>>> far into the past and the future.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
>>
>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
>> what we see today when looking at the sky.
> 
> 
> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past' 
> and does not reflect a real thing.
> 
> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars 
> we see in remote history.
> 
> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant. 
> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we 
> cannot see.
> 
> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we could 
> figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so forth 
> of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine 
> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today.
> ...
> 
>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
>>
>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
>> "predict" past appearances.
> 
> 
> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor from 
> any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but also of 
> different age.

It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see 
when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.
> 
> 
> The picture we receive from the night sky today is 'layered in time', 
> because further away means also longer ago.
> 
> So, we can see stars today together, which had never existed at the same 
> time, but millions of years apart.
> 
> Therefore, the picture in the night sky does not reflect reality and 
> never did.
> 
> But we could try to figure out something closer to reality. But that is 
> very difficult and only possible for a certain time in the past.

Constellations are unimportant other than an old way to find 
stars/whatever of interest. Constellations we see are earth specific. Go 
to Alpha Centauri and the constellations will shift somewhat. But more 
importantly there will be no Alpha Centauri in the Centaurus system, 
instead there will be three suns. There will also be a new somewhat 
bright star in another constellation. We know it as our Sun, but there 
it's just another star.

Travel further and the constellations will be unrecognizable.

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#599542

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2023-01-13 08:11 +0100
Message-ID<k2ceg8FghcrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599495
Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney:
> On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney:
>>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, and all constellations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure
>>>>> parallaxes
>>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
>>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
>>>>> far into the past and the future.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
>>>
>>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
>>> what we see today when looking at the sky.
>>
>>
>> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past'
>> and does not reflect a real thing.
>>
>> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars
>> we see in remote history.
>>
>> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant.
>> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we
>> cannot see.
>>
>> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we
>> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so
>> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine
>> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today.
>> ...
>>
>>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
>>>
>>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
>>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
>>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
>>> "predict" past appearances.
>>
>>
>> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
>> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
>> also of different age.
>
> It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
> when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.


?????

If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
constellations.

Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a 
picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in 
space.

...


TH

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#599549

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-01-13 13:12 +0100
Message-ID<1q4hr41.1cx231g1n1ikdxN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#599542
Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney:
> > On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney:
> >>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
> >>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, and all constellations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure
> >>>>> parallaxes
> >>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
> >>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
> >>>>> far into the past and the future.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
> >>>
> >>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
> >>> what we see today when looking at the sky.
> >>
> >>
> >> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past'
> >> and does not reflect a real thing.
> >>
> >> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars
> >> we see in remote history.
> >>
> >> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant.
> >> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we
> >> cannot see.
> >>
> >> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we
> >> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so
> >> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine
> >> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today.
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
> >>>
> >>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
> >>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
> >>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
> >>> "predict" past appearances.
> >>
> >>
> >> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
> >> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
> >> also of different age.
> >
> > It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
> > when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.
> 
> 
> ?????
> 
> If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
> constellations.
> 
> Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a
> picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in
> space.

Not really. (Most) of those stars do belong together,
being members of the Ursa Major Moving Group.
This is an open cluster of stars moving together.
They probably have a common origin, about 300 My ago.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursa_Major_moving_group>

You shouldn't generalise when you know nothing about it.
Most constellation are just random collections
of stars that happen to lie in roughly the same direction,
as seen from Earth.

But not all stars in all of them,

Jan

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#599551

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-13 04:41 -0800
Message-ID<547d3b78-0903-4e70-9169-f7e6d13d9083n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599549
On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 13:12:24 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Thomas Heger <ttt...@web.de> wrote: 
> 
> > Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney: 
> > > On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > >> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney: 
> > >>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > >>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder: 
> > >>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past? 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Yes, and all constellations. 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure 
> > >>>>> parallaxes 
> > >>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds, 
> > >>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so. 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like, 
> > >>>>> far into the past and the future. 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is 
> > >>> what we see today when looking at the sky. 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past' 
> > >> and does not reflect a real thing. 
> > >> 
> > >> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars 
> > >> we see in remote history. 
> > >> 
> > >> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant. 
> > >> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we 
> > >> cannot see. 
> > >> 
> > >> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we 
> > >> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so 
> > >> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine 
> > >> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today. 
> > >> ... 
> > >> 
> > >>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today? 
> > >>> 
> > >>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict 
> > >>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future 
> > >>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.), 
> > >>> "predict" past appearances. 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor 
> > >> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but 
> > >> also of different age. 
> > > 
> > > It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see 
> > > when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is. 
> > 
> > 
> > ????? 
> > 
> > If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
> > constellations. 
> > 
> > Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a 
> > picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in 
> > space.
> Not really. (Most) of those stars do belong together, 

Oh, most? How many of how many?

> You shouldn't generalise 

And you shouldn't fabricate.

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#599554

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-01-13 16:11 +0100
Message-ID<1q4i2k4.q0sc4l1ja5ucfN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#599551
Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 13:12:24 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Thomas Heger <ttt...@web.de> wrote: 
> > 
> > > Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney: 
> > > > On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > >> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney: 
> > > >>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > >>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder: 
> > > >>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder:
> > > >>>>>> 
> > > >>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past? 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>> Yes, and all constellations. 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure
> > > >>>>> parallaxes 
> > > >>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
> > > >>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so. 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like, 
> > > >>>>> far into the past and the future. 
> > > >>>>> 
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
> > > >>> what we see today when looking at the sky. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past'
> > > >> and does not reflect a real thing. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars
> > > >> we see in remote history. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant.
> > > >> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we
> > > >> cannot see. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we
> > > >> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so
> > > >> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine
> > > >> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today. 
> > > >> ... 
> > > >> 
> > > >>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today? 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
> > > >>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
> > > >>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
> > > >>> "predict" past appearances. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
> > > >> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
> > > >> also of different age. 
> > > > 
> > > > It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
> > > > when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ????? 
> > > 
> > > If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
> > > constellations. 
> > > 
> > > Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a
> > > picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in
> > > space.
> > Not really. (Most) of those stars do belong together, 
> 
> Oh, most? How many of how many?

Do your own homework, 

Jan

> > You shouldn't generalise 
> 
> And you shouldn't fabricate.

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#599563

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-13 08:54 -0800
Message-ID<59ac6a71-6f01-4a47-bd56-c362e6080450n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599554
On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 16:11:56 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> > On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 13:12:24 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > > Thomas Heger <ttt...@web.de> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney: 
> > > > > On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > > >> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney: 
> > > > >>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > > >>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder: 
> > > > >>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder:
> > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past? 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Yes, and all constellations. 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure 
> > > > >>>>> parallaxes 
> > > > >>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds, 
> > > > >>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so. 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like, 
> > > > >>>>> far into the past and the future. 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past. 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is 
> > > > >>> what we see today when looking at the sky. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past' 
> > > > >> and does not reflect a real thing. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars 
> > > > >> we see in remote history. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant. 
> > > > >> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we 
> > > > >> cannot see. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we 
> > > > >> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so 
> > > > >> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine 
> > > > >> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today. 
> > > > >> ... 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today? 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict 
> > > > >>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future 
> > > > >>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.), 
> > > > >>> "predict" past appearances. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor 
> > > > >> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but 
> > > > >> also of different age. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see 
> > > > > when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ????? 
> > > > 
> > > > If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
> > > > constellations. 
> > > > 
> > > > Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a 
> > > > picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in 
> > > > space. 
> > > Not really. (Most) of those stars do belong together, 
> > 
> > Oh, most? How many of how many?
> Do your own homework, 

No, lying trash. Tell us. How many of how many?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#599572

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2023-01-13 21:52 +0100
Message-ID<1q4imnm.ppefq515eevf5N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#599563
Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 16:11:56 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Maciej Wozniak <maluw...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > > On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 13:12:24 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Thomas Heger <ttt...@web.de> wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > > Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney: 
> > > > > > On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > > > >> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney: 
> > > > > >>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: 
> > > > > >>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder: 
> > > > > >>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder:
> > > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > > >>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past? 
> > > > > >>>>> 
> > > > > >>>>> Yes, and all constellations. 
> > > > > >>>>> 
> > > > > >>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure
> > > > > >>>>> parallaxes 
> > > > > >>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the
> > > > > >>>>> microarcseconds, hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
> > > > > >>>>> 
> > > > > >>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like, far
> > > > > >>>>> into the past and the future.
> > > > > >>>>> 
> > > > > >>>> 
> > > > > >>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what
> > > > > >>> matters is what we see today when looking at the sky.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the
> > > > > >> past' and does not reflect a real thing.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for
> > > > > >> the stars we see in remote history.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are
> > > > > >> improtant. What would matter, that are the star constellations
> > > > > >> today, which we cannot see.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if
> > > > > >> we could figure out the distances, movements, stellar
> > > > > >> interactions and so forth of the stars, put that in a huge
> > > > > >> computer and let that machine reconstruct the unseen state of
> > > > > >> the universe today. ...
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
> > > > > >>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is
> > > > > >>> future appearance of constellations, or (without photographic
> > > > > >>> evidence etc.), "predict" past appearances.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now
> > > > > >> nor from any time in the past, because the pictures are not
> > > > > >> only old, but also of different age.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you
> > > > > > see when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light
> > > > > > is.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ?????
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about
> > > > > constellations.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear
> > > > > but a picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of
> > > > > different depth in space.
> > > > Not really. (Most) of those stars do belong together, 
> > > 
> > > Oh, most? How many of how many?
> > Do your own homework, 
> 
> No, lying trash. Tell us. How many of how many?

"The keys to. Given!"

Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#599559

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-01-13 11:21 -0500
Message-ID<tps0e8$1lc9e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#599542
On 1/13/2023 2:11 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 12.01.2023 um 09:55 schrieb Volney:
>> On 1/12/2023 2:09 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 11.01.2023 um 19:00 schrieb Volney:
>>>> On 1/11/2023 5:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>> Am 10.01.2023 um 21:45 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>>>>>> carl eto <ccarleto4157990662@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 6:49:04 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has the Big Dipper chanced appearances in the past?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, and all constellations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I told you sometime ago that it is noways possible to measure
>>>>>> parallaxes
>>>>>> and proper speeds of stars with accuracies in the microarcseconds,
>>>>>> hence out to 10 000 lightyears or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So we can predict what the night sky will look like,
>>>>>> far into the past and the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 10000 years is quite far in the past.
>>>>
>>>> The light may have been emitted 10000 years ago, but what matters is
>>>> what we see today when looking at the sky.
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not agree, because the image we see is a 'message from the past'
>>> and does not reflect a real thing.
>>>
>>> We are also not very import, here on planet Earth today, for the stars
>>> we see in remote history.
>>>
>>> So, actually neither the image we see nor we ourselves are improtant.
>>> What would matter, that are the star constellations today, which we
>>> cannot see.
>>>
>>> But we could eventually try to reconstruct the real picture, if we
>>> could figure out the distances, movements, stellar interactions and so
>>> forth of the stars, put that in a huge computer and let that machine
>>> reconstruct the unseen state of the universe today.
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> But can we also predict, how the universe looks like today?
>>>>
>>>> The universe or the visible constellations? No need to predict
>>>> constellations today, just take a look. What's predicted is future
>>>> appearance of constellations, or (without photographic evidence etc.),
>>>> "predict" past appearances.
>>>
>>>
>>> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
>>> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
>>> also of different age.
>>
>> It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
>> when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.
> 
> 
> ?????
> 
> If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about 
> constellations.
> 
> Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a 
> picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth in 
> space.


Exactly. Most constellations are just random patterns caused by the 
happenstance relative positions of stars in space and time.

I don't know why you and Carl make a big deal over that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#599582

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2023-01-14 09:54 +0100
Message-ID<k2f8umFts96U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599559
Am 13.01.2023 um 17:21 schrieb Volney:

>>>> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
>>>> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
>>>> also of different age.
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
>>> when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.
>>
>>
>> ?????
>>
>> If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about
>> constellations.
>>
>> Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a
>> picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth
>> in space.
>
>
> Exactly. Most constellations are just random patterns caused by the
> happenstance relative positions of stars in space and time.
>
> I don't know why you and Carl make a big deal over that.


I wanted to insist on the character of the pictures in the night sky as 
'not real'.

The pictures we see do not reflect reality, because the pictures stem 
from stars, which partically do not exist anymore and which all are now 
at different positions then where we see them.

So: the night sky shows pictures from the past, which are also layered 
in time.

This is important to know, because some cosmological concepts would 
require to know the positions of stars at the same time but at different 
depth in space.

But we do not have these posistion, because we cannot wait millions of 
years for the pictures from further away.

This is a serious problem for cosmologists, which cannot be solved by 
taking the apparent positions, which we see today here on Earth.

We can't, because interactions between celestial objects would most 
likely depend on temporal coexistence of these objects.


TH

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#599584

FromAthel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr>
Date2023-01-14 10:07 +0100
Message-ID<k2f9mlFtvkmU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#599582
On 2023-01-14 08:54:42 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> Am 13.01.2023 um 17:21 schrieb Volney:
> 
>>>>> No. What we see today does not reflect any reality, neither now nor
>>>>> from any time in the past, because the pictures are not only old, but
>>>>> also of different age.
>>>> 
>>>> It doesn't matter. The constellations are determined by what you see
>>>> when you go outside and look. No matter how old the light is.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ?????
>>> 
>>> If you are not an astrologist, you wouldn't care that much about
>>> constellations.
>>> 
>>> Everybody knows, that e.g. 'The Great Bear' is not really a bear but a
>>> picture in the night sky, which is made from stars of different depth
>>> in space.
>> 
>> 
>> Exactly. Most constellations are just random patterns caused by the
>> happenstance relative positions of stars in space and time.
>> 
>> I don't know why you and Carl make a big deal over that.
> 
> 
> I wanted to insist on the character of the pictures in the night sky as 
> 'not real'.
> 
> The pictures we see do not reflect reality, because the pictures stem 
> from stars, which partically do not exist anymore and which all are now 
> at different positions then where we see them.
> 
> So: the night sky shows pictures from the past, which are also layered in time.
> 
> This is important to know, because some cosmological concepts

such as?

>  would require to know the positions of stars at the same time but at 
> different depth in space.
> 
> But we do not have these posistion, because we cannot wait millions of 
> years for the pictures from further away.
> 
> This is a serious problem for cosmologists,

Have you talked to any cosmologists about this? Do they agree that it 
is a serious problem?

>  which cannot be solved by taking the apparent positions, which we see 
> today here on Earth.
> 
> We can't, because interactions between celestial objects would most 
> likely depend on temporal coexistence of these objects.
> 
> 
> TH


-- 
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36+ years; mainly 
in England until 1987.

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#599602

FromPaul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com>
Date2023-01-14 12:03 -0800
Message-ID<9628d832-adcb-49cc-9bdb-6f0ce7ec043an@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#599582
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:54:50 AM UTC-8, Thomas Heger wrote:

> The pictures we see do not reflect reality, because the pictures stem 
> from stars, which partically do not exist anymore and which all are now 
> at different positions then where we see them. 
> 
> So: the night sky shows pictures from the past, which are also layered 
> in time. 
> 
> This is important to know, because some cosmological concepts would 
> require to know the positions of stars at the same time but at different 
> depth in space. 

So, which cosmological concepts would those be, exactly? I believe that you are simply making this up...

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