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Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT'

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT'
Date 2022-03-10 07:57 +0100
Message-ID <j8tlr9F1sotU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (21 earlier) <t05n0c$gnf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j8oc07F19itU1@mid.individual.net> <t073dd$1tq4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <j8pr6cFa5n3U1@mid.individual.net> <t08go6$1o8u$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Am 08.03.2022 um 22:10 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>> Am 08.03.2022 um 09:16 schrieb Michael Moroney:
>> ...
>>>>>> If no particular sign is mentioned for multiplication between vectors,
>>>>>> the scalar product is assumed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But in this case some equations become wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like what?
>>>>
>>>> Actually the problem was omnipresent.
>>>>
>>>> But I can take one example, which is on page 23 the second last
>>>> equation of the entire text.
>>>>
>>>> It says:
>>>>
>>>> -d²y/dt²=epsilon/m* v/c * N * sqrt(1- v²/c²)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now I wrote * for multiplication, while Einstein wrote no such signs.
>>>
>>> Which is common, especially in the form shown (I'm looking at
>>> https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/)
>>
>> Sure, the * sign was added by me for illustration purposes only.
>>
>> The * is often left away, because no sign means multiplication by default.
>>
>> And multiplication of vectors means scalar multiplication by default,
>> unless you write e.g. an 'x', if you want a cross product.
>>
>>>>
>>>> This will be interpreted as scalar multiplication.
>>>>
>>>> So we have a subpart '...vN...' in this equation.
>>>>
>>>> since v is a vector and N, too, we have a scalar product of two
>>>> perpendicular vectors, what is zero.
>>>
>>> No, he is using scalars throughout. He is using the simplification that
>>> the electron is moving along the X axis of K as is the other frame. He
>>> treats v as a scalar speed (though translated as velocity) plus the
>>> equation under the square root radical makes no sense if v is a vector.
>>
>> If he wanted to treat velocity as a scalar, he had to write that.
>> Possibly he could have mentioned amount or similar.
>>
>> But there are some physical quantities, which are always regarded as
>> vectors.
>>
>> Here we have: force, velocity, acceleration, electric and magnetic field
>> strength.
>>
>> Without comment, these quantities are vector quantities.
>
> No sir.  That is a rule that you have invented, to relieve you of what the
> intended audience does instinctively: selecting meaning from context.
>
> You cannot do this instinctively, because you are not qualified to be a
> member of the intended audience. And so you are asking for a content
> adjustment to have that context awareness to not be expected of the reader.
> Not going to happen, nor should it?
>
>>
>> If you want to use a scalar like speed, you have to explicitly say so.
>>
>>
>> Einstein's notation would be marked as error in any possible
>> circumstances in colledge physics.
>>
>> But Einstein's error is actually high-school level, not even university.
>>
>>> In § 7 he describes N as the third (z) component of a magnetic vector
>>> (L, M, N), thus a scalar, plus explicitly stating it is at a right
>>> angle. He also uses the scalar d²x/dt² form not the partial delta form
>>> 𝛿²x/𝛿t² for the second vector derivative. Nor would 1/N make sense in

This was the equation of Einstein:

-d²y/dt²=epsilon/m* v/c * N * sqrt(1- v²/c²)


It contains a number of errors, not only the missing cross product.

For instance it is not a vector equation, what it should be.

It was meant to derive the radius of curvature of the path of an 
electron, flying through a magnetic field. But in the used form of 
scalars it produces only a single value.

The radius was therefore just a single value, called R.

BUT: an electron flying though an electric field is accelerated 
'sideways' into a curved path, which is not a simple circle.

A circle is actually possible, but was apparently not meant. Here 
Einstein was discussing a deflection of the path perpendicular to the 
direction of the incoming electron, hence that radius is a function of 
the flown distance.

The mass applicable is what Einstein called 'traverse mass', while he 
actually used the equation for the longitudinal case with the set of 
equations called 'A'.

Then there is a minus sign for no obvious reasons, since the radius is 
not supposed to be negative (nor the amount of acceleration).

Another question is, what happened to the deceleration in the x-direction?

Yet another question is, how he justified the reduction of a three 
dimensional problem to one singe value.

The three dimensions are actually mentioned and necessary:
x-axis for velocity of the electron
y-axis for the deflected electron
z-axis for the magnetic field

Another serious issue is this: Einstein quoted Heirich Hertz and his 
modification of Maxwell's equations.  But Einsteins result resembles in 
no way the result of Heinrich Hertz.

As Einstein provided no references to used sources, I was not able to 
identify the quoted material. But from second hand quotes of Hertz I 
have found something from Hertz, which came close to the meant situation 
by Einstein.

That equation looked like this:
-nabla x H = del D/ del t  + v dot nabla D + j

This equations seems to be at least better, because it is actually a 
three dimensional vector equation and used operators and a cross 
product. It also uses the names Maxwell had used for the fields.

Yet another problem is this:

Einstein used an old school definition of the term 'electron', which 
meant a certain amount of charge, in the first occurance, while 
discussed a single particle bearing the same name here.

So we find a number of problems in his last equations.

These last equation(s) are the 'final rung of the ladder' or what 
Einstein thought to be 'The electrodynamics of moving bodies'.


(I will not comment this, because otherwise people will call me 
'antisemitic'.)

TH

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Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-05 20:16 +0100
  Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-06 12:08 +0200
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-06 21:20 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-06 21:55 +0100
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 22:04 -0800
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-07 16:04 +0200
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-07 18:42 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-07 14:38 -0500
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-08 07:39 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-08 03:16 -0500
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-08 21:04 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 21:10 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-09 06:45 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 14:13 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-10 07:57 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-10 03:36 -0500
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-10 12:46 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-10 11:48 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-11 06:57 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 13:03 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-12 08:34 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-12 15:06 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-13 08:54 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-13 04:14 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-13 10:11 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-13 20:35 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 10:33 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-14 13:37 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 07:36 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 13:54 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 18:32 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 10:09 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-14 10:01 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 07:40 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 10:36 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 20:37 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-11 16:04 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 11:06 -0800
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-12 08:10 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-12 15:24 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-12 08:09 -0800
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-12 17:12 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-12 08:37 -0800
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 02:32 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-12 21:08 -0800
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-13 09:13 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 13:42 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 13:50 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 22:38 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 22:13 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-14 12:09 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-14 05:29 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 10:46 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-14 11:58 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 07:47 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 14:17 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 18:37 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 08:42 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-03-16 11:01 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 05:07 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 10:16 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:04 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 18:32 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 10:50 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-12 21:17 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Vaugn Rhea <var@bfrlsr.ni> - 2022-03-13 00:06 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-13 09:28 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 12:45 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 04:58 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 13:01 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-13 14:39 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 11:00 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-14 12:27 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:17 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 10:36 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 14:19 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Buddy Good <erv@ervn.ni> - 2022-03-15 19:14 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-14 21:00 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-15 11:39 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 07:54 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-16 03:16 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:09 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-16 10:55 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:15 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-03-15 11:26 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-15 14:36 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 14:22 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-03-15 22:14 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 08:58 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-14 19:15 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:03 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-15 10:39 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-15 17:19 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 12:24 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 08:02 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 10:16 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:19 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 08:26 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-16 10:28 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-14 12:18 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:24 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-15 17:17 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-08 19:15 -0500
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-08 11:10 +0200
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-08 21:17 +0100
              Nazi cretin Thomas Heger eats shit "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 14:50 -0800
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-09 15:40 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-10 08:04 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-10 10:40 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-11 07:10 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 13:52 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-12 08:42 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Vaugn Rhea <var@bfrlsr.ni> - 2022-03-12 22:29 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-12 20:43 -0500
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Jessie Breit <jbre@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-13 20:15 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Vaugn Rhea <var@bfrlsr.ni> - 2022-03-12 22:46 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-03-12 16:51 -0800
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Vaugn Rhea <var@bfrlsr.ni> - 2022-03-13 01:03 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-11 07:35 -0800

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