Re: energy and mass

From	Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: energy and mass
Date	2026-03-10 15:37 +1100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10oo778$3van2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(20 earlier) <Cy6dnQMooKYmpTP0nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> <10omg8f$39lir$2@dont-email.me> <MdqdnaIx3OBrRDP0nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> <1rrq1kw.rer3msu20byuN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <oh6cne035t8T1TL0nZ2dnZfqnPVj4p2d@giganews.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 10/03/2026 9:24 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 03/09/2026 01:49 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/09/2026 05:59 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>> On 9/03/2026 2:04 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>> On 03/08/2026 06:52 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/03/2026 2:29 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/08/2026 07:44 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 2:19 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2026 04:33 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 1:59 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 10:12 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/03/2026 2:47 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 05:36 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/03/2026 7:37 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag000003, 03.03.2026 um 13:40 schrieb Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/03/2026 8:06 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.03.2026 um 11:03 schrieb Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/03/2026 8:26 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.02.2026 um 14:17 schrieb Bill 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/02/2026 8:03 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.02.2026 um 15:05 schrieb Ross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finlayson:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/26/2026 02:21 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 9:46 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 4:02 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/24/2026 03:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/23/2026 12:49 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The Dark Matter / Dark Energy their posited existence is since
>>>>>>> otherwise the usual premier theories are violated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, these theories already have gravity always doing
>>>>>>> work for free, which is a constant violation of
>>>>>>> conservation of energy, the energy budget of the universe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gravity applies a force. That isn't doing work. The earth orbits 
>>>>>> the sun
>>>>>> without doing much work at all. The consequent tidal forces inside 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sun sap kinetic energy from the earth's orbital movement, in the same
>>>>>> way that tides on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can see that happening if we look very closely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hummingbirdpc.com.au/as-it-slowly-drifts-away-from-earth-the-m
>> oon-is-changing-the-length-of-our-days-and-our-tides/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dark Matter and Dark Energy are un-observable by definition,
>>>>>>> this un-falsifiable, thus not science, while the otherwise
>>>>>>> premier theory has been falsified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People have been looking for Dark Matter particles for decades now.
>>>>>> They seem to have a different definition from yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dark energy was proposed as an explanation for the expansion of the
>>>>>> universe, as observed by Hubble. It has been argued that Hubble
>>>>>> misinterpreted what he saw, but few accept that argument.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "... as would require being theoretical _physicists_."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't even care what I say: only what's said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you aren't all that careful about what you say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody knows that applying force over distance is work.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_(physics)
>>>>
>>>> That's not all that precisely formulated. If the applied force moves 
>>>> the
>>>> object to which the force was applied in the direction in which the
>>>> force was applied, then work was done.
>>>>
>>>> A planet in orbit is in motion, but the movement is at right-angles to
>>>> the force applied by gravity, so that force isn't doing any work.
>>>>
>>>>> The idea that "curved space-time in relativity theory"
>>>>> does that for free is fallacious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, quantum mechanics also has no usual "quantum gravity".
>>>>
>>>> It hasn't got it yet. It took quite a while for us to realise that
>>>> electric charge is quantised, because the quanta of charge are pretty
>>>> small. We may need much more fine-grained instruments before we can see
>>>> any sign of quantisation in gravitational effects
>>>>
>>>>> Newton: pull (gravitic)
>>>>> Fatio/LeSage: push (gravific)
>>>>> Einstein: follow (Newton's)
>>>>> Finlayson: fall (Fatio/LeSage's)
>>>>>
>>>>> To be bending space-time all around, or the usual idea
>>>>> of the "rubber sheet" analogy of gravity, and that
>>>>> gravity's cause is "down", or as per Einstein,
>>>>> "straight down", has that that's giving an
>>>>> explanation to a non-explanation. If it curves
>>>>> space-time then it must involve what curves space-time,
>>>>> which otherwise would be doing work for free.
>>>>
>>>> You don't have a very clear idea of what might constitute work.
>>>>
>>>>> Then, how it can be that quantum gravity gets defined,
>>>>> that gravity is the gravific and furthermore is as of
>>>>> an overall balance and resolving the potentials of
>>>>> the total field instead of anywhere locally being
>>>>> a constant violation of the energy budget and
>>>>> the most usual principles of conservation of energy
>>>>> and least action, it's a fall gravity explained by and
>>>>> explaining the nuclear force.
>>>>
>>>> You don't seem to have any idea how you might calculate an energy 
>>>> budget.
>>>>
>>>>> This way this unification of sorts also helps explain
>>>>> both the (strong) nuclear force and gravity, together.
>>>>
>>>> You may think so.
>>>>
>>>>> Another example of the constant violation of
>>>>> the energy budget is electron orbitals with
>>>>> regards to otherwise classical orbits would
>>>>> always be decaying.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Tidal forces are steadily moving the moon away from the earth, not
>>>> towards it.
>>>>
>>>> The nucleus of an atom doesn't accommodate tidal movement so there's no
>>>> reason why an electron orbital would decay. Because the energies
>>>> involved are all quantised the electrons can't lose small amounts of
>>>> energy - they can only move into higher orbits (or get captured by the
>>>> nucleus in an inverse beta decay).
>>>>
>>>>> I very much care what I say, for that
>>>>> what I say is so.
>>>>
>>>> You can't even define work accurately.
>>>>
>>>>> The academic authority is one hopes
>>>>> hard-earned and hard-learned, more
>>>>> than merely a convenience of assignation
>>>>> of blame and direction of guidance.
>>>>
>>>> But you don't seem to have had an adequate acedemic education.
>>>>
>>>>> I only care what the words say,
>>>>> and science cares about _all_ the data.
>>>>
>>>> And you clearly don't.
>>>
>>> Actually the measurement of the quantity of an electron
>>> isn't exactly charge by itself so much as a charge/mass ratio.
>>
>> Millikan doesn't agree with you.
>>
>>> Gravity according to the oldest law is always doing work,
>>> whenever it can.
>>>
>>> I have a mathematics degree. I got a 1520/1600 on the
>>> SAT and 1500/1600 on the GRE and 170/180 on the LSAT,
>>> back when those were top scores, so, theoretically
>>> I'm at least _ready_ for higher education.
>>>
>>> I even found somebody who's made a greater account
>>> of continuity and infinity in mathematics for
>>> Foundations. It's me, though, ....
>>
>> So you learned the lessons, did some excercises, perhaps,
>> and in the end you didn't understand a thing,

> Millikan was a studious and able technician
> who ran with what he had.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Millikan

He got the 1923 Nobel Prize in Physics for the work.

> He's not Thomson or Rutherford, ....

True, but not far behind.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Thomson
> 
> "In 1897, [ Thomson ] showed that cathode rays
> were composed of previously unknown negatively
> charged particles (now called electrons), which he
> calculated must have bodies much smaller than atoms
> and a very large charge-to-mass ratio."
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Rutherford
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rutherford_(mathematician)
> 
> "William Rutherford (1798–1871) was an English mathematician
> famous for his calculation of 208 digits of the mathematical constant
> π in 1841. Only the first 152 calculated digits were later found to be
> correct; but that broke the record of the time, ...."
> 
> 
> "[Ernest Rutherford] has been described as "the father of nuclear
> physics" and "the greatest experimentalist since Michael Faraday.""
>  
> I think Thomson bears more than a passing resemblance to Planck.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck
> 
> Sort of like Einstein and Carl Neumann.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Neumann
> 
> Feynman was famous for his calculation, ...,
> about whether his records ever broke.
>  
> Electrical current is not "a fine mist of charged oil
> droplets in the fields of gravity and electromagnetism".

But it can be carried by charged oil droplets, and the oil droplets were 
small enough that the difference between one electron and two electrons 
of charge was perceptible and measurable. That's what experimental 
physicists exist to exploit.

> These days besides the usual model with a fixed and finite
> charge to mass ratio, and what makes "Higgs" theory, there
> are quite altogether various accounts of where the ratio is
> infinite, and another where it vacillates. "Little Higgs" and
> "higgsinos" is not Higgs theory, and neither is "charginos".
>  
> "Super-symmetry: not dead, again."

But not in the least useful.

> Everybody who sat physics/chemistry class through Millikan and
> for what's given as electron orbital theory and later about
> Lienard-Wiechert and the account of the sum of, "potentials",
> the usual account, has often it was never introduced these
> other ideas and their theoretical and experimental backing,
> for example that there are other derivations than Lienard-Wiechert,
> with a usual account of "test particles" and "electron holes".

I was certainly taught about Millikan in my elementary physics courses.
Lienard-Wiechert didn't feature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%C3%A9nard%E2%80%93Wiechert_potential

> O.W. Richardson has a great account of at least three ways to
> look at the particle conceit besides laying out the entire standard
> narrative in "The Electron Theory of Matter". O.W. Richardson:
> just another "Nobel prize winner". Also he gives three different
> constants 'c'.
> 
> He even has more than one where Wolfgang Pauli and Max Born
> don't even get included.

Richardson looked at the thermal emission of electrons from heated 
cathodes. Schottky added in the effect of negative bias in increasing 
the emission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Schottky

Wolfgang Pauli and Max Born wouldn't have missed that.

> Of course, Faraday is really pretty great, and "Faraday Rotation"
> is up again almost as much as "supplementary variables". 
> 
> Copenhagen: grasping at straws.

The Copenhagen interpretation may be intellectually lazy, but it evaded 
a lot of pointless rationalisation.

> I don't have much for "understanding" and "compromise"
> when there are "knowledge/wisdom" and "science/decision".

Why would you? All four skills seem to be out of your reach.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-23 12:28 +0100
  Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-23 08:46 -0800
    Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-23 09:26 -0800
      Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-23 21:49 +0100
        Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-23 22:30 -0800
          Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-24 12:40 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-24 09:02 -0800
              Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-24 20:34 +0100
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-25 16:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-25 11:46 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-25 08:35 -0800
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-25 10:01 -0800
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-26 13:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-26 16:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-26 11:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-02-26 11:29 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-02-26 12:32 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-26 13:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-02-26 18:33 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-26 21:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-26 06:05 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-02-26 15:32 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-26 06:41 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-02-26 18:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-26 10:40 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-02-26 20:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-26 11:52 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-02-28 10:14 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 00:04 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-01 10:08 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 20:40 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-03 09:53 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-03 23:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-05 11:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-06 01:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-05 16:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-05 08:48 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-03-05 22:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-05 14:32 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-06 16:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-05 18:20 -0800
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-06 11:01 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 16:48 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 21:56 -0800
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-07 04:16 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 00:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 07:08 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 00:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-05 08:42 -0800
                Re: energy and mass "Don" <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-03-05 18:48 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-05 12:32 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-06 05:57 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-08 09:40 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 01:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-10 09:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 08:56 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-10 09:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:21 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-10 20:04 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-10 12:51 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 12:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 14:53 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-11 10:01 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-11 07:54 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-11 20:19 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 17:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-12 07:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 16:41 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-13 08:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 16:53 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-12 10:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 16:48 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-13 08:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:03 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 17:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 02:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 16:55 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-13 07:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 01:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-13 20:01 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:13 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 07:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 01:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 20:40 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 15:40 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 20:19 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 10:33 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 23:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 14:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 09:46 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 02:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 09:55 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-15 10:08 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 20:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 20:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-11 08:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 17:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 09:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 02:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 10:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 08:40 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:16 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 04:20 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:37 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:32 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 23:23 -0700
                Re: energy and mass "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2026-03-11 13:15 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:27 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 10:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 10:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 10:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 10:30 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 19:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 06:48 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 21:22 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 13:14 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 02:57 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 14:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:33 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:52 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 02:46 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 08:57 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 10:09 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 03:01 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 19:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-11 09:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-03-11 10:54 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-12 10:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 10:48 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 12:42 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-13 10:54 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 02:57 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-13 20:08 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 07:52 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 20:44 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 15:46 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 09:26 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 20:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 01:03 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:30 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-15 09:38 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:19 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 10:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 09:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 21:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-12 15:52 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 08:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 17:19 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 11:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 08:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 08:31 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:08 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 01:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 01:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 01:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 09:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 09:25 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 09:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 04:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 17:00 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:22 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 01:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 17:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 07:54 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 02:57 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 21:01 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 08:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 21:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 11:18 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 13:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 07:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:04 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 11:43 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:30 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:21 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 15:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 17:11 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 08:07 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 22:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:22 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-14 12:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 08:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 08:26 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 09:19 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-14 21:43 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 16:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 10:15 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-15 21:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-15 23:04 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:27 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 07:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:19 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 11:48 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 15:55 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 17:27 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 08:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 22:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 13:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 02:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:18 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 05:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:28 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 17:19 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 20:39 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 00:41 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 15:09 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 16:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-16 16:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 17:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 08:17 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 22:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 14:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:34 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:36 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:12 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 08:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 20:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:28 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 00:19 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 14:41 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 01:20 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 15:33 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-03-18 15:19 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-17 17:26 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:08 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:13 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:00 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 22:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 17:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 10:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 22:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 09:26 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 15:08 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 09:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-14 21:06 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-17 08:42 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 23:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-14 21:43 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-17 08:52 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:13 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:09 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:35 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:33 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 15:43 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:50 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:06 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 00:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-14 10:18 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 02:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:41 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-01 13:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 06:51 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-28 07:06 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 17:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-01 10:46 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-02-28 10:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 00:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-01 10:26 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 21:03 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-03 10:06 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-03 23:40 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-03 13:47 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-04 16:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-03-04 09:42 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-04 02:52 -0800
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-07 23:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-06 09:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 00:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 07:47 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 17:12 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 06:59 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 11:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 19:19 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 01:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 08:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 12:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 00:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:36 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:09 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-10 23:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2026-03-11 13:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 14:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:22 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 12:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:45 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-12 10:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-15 21:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 01:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 10:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 00:27 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 10:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 11:41 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 13:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 23:59 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-09 21:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 15:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 22:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 16:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 23:26 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:25 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 04:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:39 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 10:17 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 13:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:23 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:38 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 00:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 17:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 01:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 12:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 04:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 17:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 14:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 21:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-15 21:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 14:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 17:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 18:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 10:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 15:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:41 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 13:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:41 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 20:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-15 17:01 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:21 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:57 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:01 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-16 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:02 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-17 07:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 22:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:03 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:43 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 16:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:07 -0700

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