Re: energy and mass

Subject	Re: energy and mass
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.electronics.design
References	(20 earlier) <10ous08$24hv5$7@dont-email.me> <1rrvm8j.xgt7kh5umvqsN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <10p0bal$2p711$5@dont-email.me> <1rrwmmd.1c25t9pwot6n0N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <UUqdnWE09LpEGin0nZ2dnZfqnPVj4p2d@giganews.com>
From	Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date	2026-03-13 21:29 -0700
Message-ID	<ayqdnWcYS9eKeSn0nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 03/13/2026 02:55 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 03/13/2026 02:05 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/03/2026 7:58 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/03/2026 9:51 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/03/2026 4:45 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 9:20 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/03/2026 7:21 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/03/2026 2:29 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/08/2026 07:44 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 2:19 pm, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2026 04:33 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/03/2026 1:59 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 10:12 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/03/2026 2:47 am, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 03/06/2026 05:36 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/03/2026 7:37 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag000003, 03.03.2026 um 13:40 Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/03/2026 8:06 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.03.2026 um 11:03 Bill Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/03/2026 8:26 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.02.2026 um 14:17 Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sloman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/02/2026 8:03 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.02.2026 um 15:05 Ross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finlayson:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/26/2026 02:21 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 9:46 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/02/2026 4:02 am, Ross Finlayson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/24/2026 03:40 AM, J. J. Lodder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/23/2026 12:49 PM, J. J. Lodder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The consequent tidal forces inside the sun sap kinetic energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the earth's orbital movement, in the same way that tides
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a mistake. There is no tidal dissipation in the sun.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The sun will have tides too and the tidal ridges and valleys on
>>>>>>>>>>> the surface of the will influence the movement of the earth, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the movement of surface of the sun will absorb energy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are clutching at straws to save an erroneous idea.
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes it is easier to just admit to having made a mistake.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Go ahead.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There will be tidal dissipation in the sun, but not much of it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Effectively nothing.
>>>>>>>>>> Remember that the relevant part of the sun is turbulent plasma.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm well aware of it. Tidal excursions will still dissipate some
>>>>>>>>> energy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, OK, you are behaving like just another crackpot
>>>>>>>> who can't bring himself to admit that his pet idea is wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not my pet idea. It's just difficult for me to imagine that
>>>>>>> there won't be tides on the sun, or that the tidal flows will be
>>>>>>> non-dissipative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course there will be a (very small) tide in the sun,
>>>>>> and of course it will not be completely non-dissipative.
>>>>>> That doesn't mean that it is in any way relevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> We weren't talking about relevance. I wanted to see a coherent world
>>>>> picture.
>>>>
>>>> A coherent world picture involves having correct ideas
>>>> about orders of magnitude, and relevance or irrelevance.
>>>
>>> If the tides exist, but are too small to be important, it isn't a reason
>>> to deny their very existence.
>>>
>>>> Or do you also include a note on the phases of the moon
>>>> in your electronics measurements?
>>>
>>> As a graduate student I used to joke that I ought to include it in my
>>> reaction data. I certainly need to record a lot of data that didn't look
>>> directly relevant
>>>
>>>>>>> It's easy to imagine that they won't be significant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagining is always easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a lot easier than doing plasma stability calculations.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A turbulent plasma threaded by magnetic fields is not going to
>>>>>>> behave
>>>>>>> in a way that is going to be easy to analyse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed. Those in fusion research know all too well.
>>>>>
>>>>> And are very willing to tell people how difficult it is.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, any excuse for not having a fusion reactor yet will do.
>>>
>>> The people I was in contact with - for a very different project -
>>> actually got their machine to fuse a few nuclei. They'd put off doing it
>>> until they'd got all the data they really needed because the neutron
>>> flux was high enough to leave insides of the machine dangerously
>>> radioactive, but it made for a nice sign-off press release.
>>
>> I know, in tradition. They are good at press releases over there.
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_sun_of_our_own_newspaper_headline.jpg>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Enough said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure. You  want to dismiss me as crank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is a misunderstanding on your part.
>>>>>> I am telling you that you are behaving like one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sci.physics.relativity has
>>>>>>> enough cranks to make it a plausible strategy, and I've been
>>>>>>> exploiting
>>>>>>> it myself, but I'm probably not enough of a crank for it to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not about what you are, it is about how you are behaving,
>>>>>> (on this particular point)
>>>>>
>>>>> I do take care not to behave too much like a crank.
>>>>
>>>> FYI, you are behaving too much like a crank on this.
>>>> No better than for example TH on his growing Earth.
>>>> Is it really too hard for you to admit for once that you goofed?
>>>
>>> I have no problem admitting that I've goofed when I actually have
>>> goofed.
>>
>> Wel, you did.
>> May I remind you that we started out this sub-thread with your:
>> ========================================================================
>> Gravity applies a force. That isn't doing work. The earth orbits the sun
>> without doing much work at all. The consequent tidal forces inside the
>> sun sap kinetic energy from the earth's orbital movement, in the same
>> way that tides on earth are causing the moons orbit to change.
>> ========================================================================
>>
>> This is just plain wrong.
>> The cause is the dragging of the tidal bulges on Earth.
>>
>>> My feeling is that you are now acting more like a crank than I did.
>>
>> You might consider applying the First Law of Holes?
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>
> So, it's a huge waste of time?
>
>
> Force is a function of time.
>

That "force is a a function: of time", changes the usual interpretation
of the laws of physics.


Why do bad jokes always come at the worst possible time?

(Example: Because G-d hates comedians.)

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Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-02-28 10:03 +0100
  Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 00:17 +1100
    Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-01 10:26 +0100
      Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-01 21:03 +1100
        Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-03 10:06 +0100
          Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-03 23:40 +1100
            Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-03 13:47 -0800
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-04 16:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-03-04 09:42 +0000
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-04 02:52 -0800
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-07 23:39 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-06 09:37 +0100
              Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 00:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-06 07:47 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-07 17:12 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 06:59 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-08 11:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-07 19:19 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 01:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 08:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 12:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 20:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 00:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:36 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:09 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:17 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-10 23:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2026-03-11 13:50 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 14:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:22 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 12:56 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:45 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-12 10:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-13 10:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-14 03:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-15 21:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 21:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:06 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 01:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-17 10:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 00:27 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 11:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:14 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:11 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 15:07 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-18 23:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 09:31 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-19 20:38 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:54 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 11:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 16:23 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-19 07:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 10:59 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 11:41 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 13:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 23:59 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 07:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-09 21:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 15:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 22:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 16:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 23:26 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 09:25 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 04:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:26 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 08:19 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 00:34 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 07:13 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 18:39 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 09:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 10:17 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:42 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 13:03 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 03:50 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-12 23:23 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:05 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 22:31 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:38 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 08:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 00:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 03:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 10:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 16:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-10 14:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-10 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-11 17:02 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 01:00 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-11 18:45 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-11 12:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-12 16:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 11:51 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 04:09 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-12 21:58 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-13 17:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 14:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 21:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 03:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-15 21:57 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 14:18 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 17:24 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 18:10 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 01:52 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:04 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:32 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:24 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 10:49 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 00:43 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 15:35 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:33 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 17:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:36 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-17 20:41 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 11:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:29 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-03-18 13:37 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:48 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 03:58 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:47 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 13:05 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 23:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 14:41 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 20:14 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-15 16:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 06:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 08:13 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-15 17:01 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 09:55 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:16 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:21 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:10 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:29 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:44 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 07:57 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:25 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-16 15:01 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-03-16 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 02:18 +1100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-16 08:34 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 11:02 -0700
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-17 07:20 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:12 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 06:56 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:47 -0700
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-16 22:24 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-17 18:49 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:03 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 04:37 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 14:43 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 16:05 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 07:39 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:07 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-18 09:11 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-18 21:28 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-19 12:10 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-20 01:35 +1100
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:44 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:52 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:42 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 09:58 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 10:28 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-20 11:00 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 02:54 +1100
                Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-03-19 11:17 -0700
                Re: energy and mass Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-03-08 09:53 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-09 02:07 +1100
      Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-01 12:49 +0100

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