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Re: Mercury

Date 2026-04-03 11:06 -0400
Subject Re: Mercury
Newsgroups alt.unix.geeks, comp.os.linux.misc
References (19 earlier) <njt0amx477.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <8f2cnUWvT4L8SFD0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> <tr12amxjrq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <goqdne0QMPjDNVP0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <vko4amxk3s.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
From c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Organization wokiesux
Message-ID <ycGdnZJ5Ypf2SlL0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 4/3/26 08:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
> {Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
> 
> On 2026-04-02 19:33, c186282 wrote:
>> On 4/2/26 07:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-04-02 04:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>> On 4/1/26 21:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-04-02 02:18, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/1/26 15:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2026-04-01 21:16, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/1/26 13:58, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2026-04-01, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     One gripe with most LEDs though is that they may START
>>>>>>>>>>     at 5K but soon 'warm up' to 4K or less. Maybe increasing
>>>>>>>>>>     use of 'quantum dots' will stabilize that ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Oh well, I still have a few metal kerosene 'railroad lamps'
>>>>>>>>>>     with the wick like Farmer Brown would have owned. Hey,
>>>>>>>>>>     they always WORK ....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, but they come nowhere near 4K, let alone 5K.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    More like 2K.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    However when the power lines are down ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Hmm ... my mother remembered when one of the
>>>>>>>>    older brothers wired the family home with
>>>>>>>>    electricity. Before then, 'oil lamps'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A summer when I was about 9, we went to my mother village. They 
>>>>>>> had no running water at the homes, no toilet. We used the stable. 
>>>>>>> The house where we stayed had some electricity. They paid by the 
>>>>>>> number of bulbs. There was one in the main room, but I don't 
>>>>>>> remember about the bedrooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Well, Mom lived "on the farm" ... outhouse, hand-pumped
>>>>>>    water. The brother (ugly guy but super-clever) wired the
>>>>>>    whole house and then the electric company would connect.
>>>>>>    He also apparently built their first radio from scrounged
>>>>>>    parts, including a loudspeaker using an iron bar magnet
>>>>>>    and glue-impregnated paper. I guess I kind of take after
>>>>>>    him, though not QUITE as ugly :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I built a "headphone", from a kit. Basically a coil and a iron thin 
>>>>> sheet.
>>>>
>>>>    Uncle hand-wound the coil. That much he related.
>>>>    Took a cardboard tube, kind of like what paper
>>>>    towels come on, and soaked it in varnish to
>>>>    make it rigid.
>>>>
>>>>    Dunno how he got everything symmetrical. Likely
>>>>    wasn't a hi-fi radio, but good enough for voice.
>>>>
>>>>    Apparently there was a radio fix-it shop in
>>>>    town and it had some left-over parts from
>>>>    early 1920s models. He got the tubes and
>>>>    likely transformers from there, one at a time.
>>>>    Farmers and such didn't have lots of spare cash.
>>>
>>> The village where my mother was born, had no water, almost no 
>>> electricity, and no cash, back in 1970. It was barter.
>>
>>    My tale was of the early 1930s, depression-era America.
> 
> 
> Yes, but this village was simply backwards, progress had not reached 
> there. They had been that way maybe for centuries. I think there were 
> many in the early 70's here like that. Those people emigrated to cities, 
> and now the villages are empty and abandoned.


   The obsession with "being modern" is maybe more
   of a USA thing ? We're a 'novelty' society, keen
   on the latest neat-o gadgets and methods. There
   are positives, and some negatives, to that.


>>    And there was a lot of barter. Cash was hard to come by.
>>
>>> My mother told an anecdote of some entertainer with puppets that went 
>>> around the villages. Kids wanted to see it but had no money, so they 
>>> gave him eggs. Till the man had so many eggs that he exploded and 
>>> said he wanted no more eggs! What could he do with dozens of eggs on 
>>> the road? Some colourful expression he would have said that I have 
>>> forgotten.
>>
>>    Not so unusual for people, entertainers, doctors, to
>>    work for 'trade' in years past. If you didn't get cash
>>    then at least you'd eat or someone would fix your roof
>>    or whatever.
>>
>>
>>>>>>    I wonder if they heard that "day which will live
>>>>>>    in infamy" speech on that radio ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Not too long before he died he asked me to explain
>>>>>>    exactly how a CPU worked - and I found I could not
>>>>>>    provide a low-level description. Still can't, have
>>>>>>    no idea how instruction-fetch/decode/data-routing
>>>>>>    works at the bare transistor level.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is actually simple, but using gates, not transistors. Well, 
>>>>> transistors is one step further, each group form a gate. And a 
>>>>> group of gates form functions, like registers. It is overwhelming 
>>>>> from scratch, but if someone explains a function at a time, it 
>>>>> becomes "understandable". At least an old 8 bit CPU, like the 8085 
>>>>> or 6502. A modern one is more steps in complexity.
>>>>
>>>>    I tried to study a 4004 ... but still couldn't
>>>>    really assemble a mental model of how the needed
>>>>    steps were done at the lowest level.
>>>>
>>>>    'Gates' are made from transistors. Those I get
>>>>    just fine ... but how to build a CPU "machine"
>>>>    out of them ............
>>>
>>> You need somebody explaining it. Or a book that explains it. Trying 
>>> to study it doesn't work. It is complex, but there is a trick, a 
>>> method of explaining it and suddenly the mind does "click!" and you 
>>> understand it all.
>>
>>
>>    Could never get the 'click' alas. The sheer complexity of
>>    how even a 'simple' CPU works is daunting. Oh well, too
>>    old now, I'll never get it. Can form an abstract picture,
>>    but the silicon details ... nope .....
>>
> 
> As I say, on your own it is impossible unless you are a genius. You need 
> somebody that understand them to do the explaining, slowly. Or a really 
> good book.
> 
> For me, it was a classroom at uni. I don't know if it was useful to 
> somebody, though, we were never going to design one.
> 
> And I have forgotten most of it. I have the feeling, but I can not 
> explain any.


   Well, if you 'get it' then great ... but remember you're
   the one-in-ten-million.

   For me, well, CPUs run on Magic Smoke for all intents.

   I've seen some arcane ancient scrolls that supposedly
   explain the magic, but I can't translate them.

   No "click" ... oh well. I don't have to know all the
   equations and design for a 20-megawatt electrical
   generator either - but so long as the lights come on ...

   But I'd LIKE to know how at least a 4004 or 8008
   work at the transistor level. How the fuck did they
   even get all the interconnects in 2-D ??? Alas you
   can't always get what you want.

   Now given some time, I could probably WRITE a CPU
   emulator using emulated gates ... maybe that should
   be my approach ? Same prob, different angle of attack.
   That could "click".

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Thread

Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-31 12:58 +0200
  Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-31 20:10 +0000
    Re: Mercury Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
      Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-01 04:37 +0000
      Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-01 13:26 +0100
        Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 09:03 -0400
          Re: Mercury Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-01 17:58 +0000
            Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 15:16 -0400
              Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-01 21:57 +0200
                Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 20:18 -0400
                Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-02 03:33 +0200
                Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 22:32 -0400
                Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-02 13:51 +0200
                Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 13:33 -0400
                Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 00:21 +0000
                Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 22:51 -0400
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                Re: CPU design "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 13:20 +0200
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                Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 19:09 +0000
                Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:26 +0000
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                Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 23:58 +0000
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