Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register
Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #85286
| Date | 2026-04-03 11:06 -0400 |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: Mercury |
| Newsgroups | alt.unix.geeks, comp.os.linux.misc |
| References | (19 earlier) <njt0amx477.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <8f2cnUWvT4L8SFD0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> <tr12amxjrq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <goqdne0QMPjDNVP0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <vko4amxk3s.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
| Organization | wokiesux |
| Message-ID | <ycGdnZJ5Ypf2SlL0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink) |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 4/3/26 08:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> {Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
>
> On 2026-04-02 19:33, c186282 wrote:
>> On 4/2/26 07:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-04-02 04:32, c186282 wrote:
>>>> On 4/1/26 21:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-04-02 02:18, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/1/26 15:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2026-04-01 21:16, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/1/26 13:58, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2026-04-01, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One gripe with most LEDs though is that they may START
>>>>>>>>>> at 5K but soon 'warm up' to 4K or less. Maybe increasing
>>>>>>>>>> use of 'quantum dots' will stabilize that ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh well, I still have a few metal kerosene 'railroad lamps'
>>>>>>>>>> with the wick like Farmer Brown would have owned. Hey,
>>>>>>>>>> they always WORK ....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, but they come nowhere near 4K, let alone 5K.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More like 2K.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However when the power lines are down ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm ... my mother remembered when one of the
>>>>>>>> older brothers wired the family home with
>>>>>>>> electricity. Before then, 'oil lamps'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A summer when I was about 9, we went to my mother village. They
>>>>>>> had no running water at the homes, no toilet. We used the stable.
>>>>>>> The house where we stayed had some electricity. They paid by the
>>>>>>> number of bulbs. There was one in the main room, but I don't
>>>>>>> remember about the bedrooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, Mom lived "on the farm" ... outhouse, hand-pumped
>>>>>> water. The brother (ugly guy but super-clever) wired the
>>>>>> whole house and then the electric company would connect.
>>>>>> He also apparently built their first radio from scrounged
>>>>>> parts, including a loudspeaker using an iron bar magnet
>>>>>> and glue-impregnated paper. I guess I kind of take after
>>>>>> him, though not QUITE as ugly :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I built a "headphone", from a kit. Basically a coil and a iron thin
>>>>> sheet.
>>>>
>>>> Uncle hand-wound the coil. That much he related.
>>>> Took a cardboard tube, kind of like what paper
>>>> towels come on, and soaked it in varnish to
>>>> make it rigid.
>>>>
>>>> Dunno how he got everything symmetrical. Likely
>>>> wasn't a hi-fi radio, but good enough for voice.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently there was a radio fix-it shop in
>>>> town and it had some left-over parts from
>>>> early 1920s models. He got the tubes and
>>>> likely transformers from there, one at a time.
>>>> Farmers and such didn't have lots of spare cash.
>>>
>>> The village where my mother was born, had no water, almost no
>>> electricity, and no cash, back in 1970. It was barter.
>>
>> My tale was of the early 1930s, depression-era America.
>
>
> Yes, but this village was simply backwards, progress had not reached
> there. They had been that way maybe for centuries. I think there were
> many in the early 70's here like that. Those people emigrated to cities,
> and now the villages are empty and abandoned.
The obsession with "being modern" is maybe more
of a USA thing ? We're a 'novelty' society, keen
on the latest neat-o gadgets and methods. There
are positives, and some negatives, to that.
>> And there was a lot of barter. Cash was hard to come by.
>>
>>> My mother told an anecdote of some entertainer with puppets that went
>>> around the villages. Kids wanted to see it but had no money, so they
>>> gave him eggs. Till the man had so many eggs that he exploded and
>>> said he wanted no more eggs! What could he do with dozens of eggs on
>>> the road? Some colourful expression he would have said that I have
>>> forgotten.
>>
>> Not so unusual for people, entertainers, doctors, to
>> work for 'trade' in years past. If you didn't get cash
>> then at least you'd eat or someone would fix your roof
>> or whatever.
>>
>>
>>>>>> I wonder if they heard that "day which will live
>>>>>> in infamy" speech on that radio ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not too long before he died he asked me to explain
>>>>>> exactly how a CPU worked - and I found I could not
>>>>>> provide a low-level description. Still can't, have
>>>>>> no idea how instruction-fetch/decode/data-routing
>>>>>> works at the bare transistor level.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is actually simple, but using gates, not transistors. Well,
>>>>> transistors is one step further, each group form a gate. And a
>>>>> group of gates form functions, like registers. It is overwhelming
>>>>> from scratch, but if someone explains a function at a time, it
>>>>> becomes "understandable". At least an old 8 bit CPU, like the 8085
>>>>> or 6502. A modern one is more steps in complexity.
>>>>
>>>> I tried to study a 4004 ... but still couldn't
>>>> really assemble a mental model of how the needed
>>>> steps were done at the lowest level.
>>>>
>>>> 'Gates' are made from transistors. Those I get
>>>> just fine ... but how to build a CPU "machine"
>>>> out of them ............
>>>
>>> You need somebody explaining it. Or a book that explains it. Trying
>>> to study it doesn't work. It is complex, but there is a trick, a
>>> method of explaining it and suddenly the mind does "click!" and you
>>> understand it all.
>>
>>
>> Could never get the 'click' alas. The sheer complexity of
>> how even a 'simple' CPU works is daunting. Oh well, too
>> old now, I'll never get it. Can form an abstract picture,
>> but the silicon details ... nope .....
>>
>
> As I say, on your own it is impossible unless you are a genius. You need
> somebody that understand them to do the explaining, slowly. Or a really
> good book.
>
> For me, it was a classroom at uni. I don't know if it was useful to
> somebody, though, we were never going to design one.
>
> And I have forgotten most of it. I have the feeling, but I can not
> explain any.
Well, if you 'get it' then great ... but remember you're
the one-in-ten-million.
For me, well, CPUs run on Magic Smoke for all intents.
I've seen some arcane ancient scrolls that supposedly
explain the magic, but I can't translate them.
No "click" ... oh well. I don't have to know all the
equations and design for a 20-megawatt electrical
generator either - but so long as the lights come on ...
But I'd LIKE to know how at least a 4004 or 8008
work at the transistor level. How the fuck did they
even get all the interconnects in 2-D ??? Alas you
can't always get what you want.
Now given some time, I could probably WRITE a CPU
emulator using emulated gates ... maybe that should
be my approach ? Same prob, different angle of attack.
That could "click".
Back to comp.os.linux.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-31 20:10 +0000
Re: Mercury Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-01 04:37 +0000
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-01 13:26 +0100
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 09:03 -0400
Re: Mercury Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-01 17:58 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 15:16 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-01 21:57 +0200
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 20:18 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-02 03:33 +0200
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 22:32 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-02 13:51 +0200
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 13:33 -0400
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 00:21 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 22:51 -0400
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 03:21 +0000
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 14:38 +0200
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 06:22 +0000
Re: Mercury Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-03 07:50 -0700
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 11:13 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 14:33 +0200
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 11:06 -0400
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:51 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 14:47 -0400
CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-03 12:57 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 22:45 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-04 03:27 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 04:57 +0000
CPU design "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:00 +0200
Re: CPU design c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 16:29 -0400
Re: CPU design "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 13:20 +0200
Re: CPU design c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-04 13:57 -0400
Re: CPU design "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 22:18 +0200
Re: CPU design Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-05 03:44 +0000
Re: CPU design "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-05 13:58 +0200
Re: CPU design c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-05 17:19 -0400
Re: CPU design The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 12:42 +0100
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 21:57 +0000
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 17:54 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 22:29 -0400
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 04:58 +0000
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 13:30 +0100
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-04 13:46 -0400
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 19:22 +0000
Re: Mercury Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-04-04 20:39 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-04 18:10 -0400
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-05 03:31 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-05 17:13 -0400
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-05 03:59 +0000
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 19:09 +0000
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:26 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-04 13:50 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 21:55 +0200
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-04 13:40 +0100
Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:32 +0000
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-04 18:44 +0200
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-04 19:02 +0000
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 12:17 +0100
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-05 13:59 +0200
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-05 13:10 +0100
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-05 19:50 +0200
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-05 22:02 +0000
Re: Mercury Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-05 17:01 -0700
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-06 02:05 +0000
Mandriva was Re: Mercury Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-05 21:18 -0700
Re: Mandriva was Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-06 16:02 +0000
Re: Mandriva was Re: Mercury Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-06 18:09 +0000
Re: Mandriva was Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-07 02:15 +0000
Re: Mandriva was Re: Mercury Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-06 14:53 -0700
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-06 11:01 +0100
CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 10:43 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-02 19:44 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 15:06 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 10:32 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 23:58 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 15:11 +0200
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 14:56 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-02 15:31 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-02 22:46 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 07:03 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:25 +0100
The New Feudalism Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-03 06:33 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-03 10:47 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 10:04 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 12:29 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 10:35 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-03 07:00 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:27 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-03 13:54 -0700
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:54 +0200
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 03:45 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-03 18:10 +0000
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-03 15:04 -0400
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 10:13 +0100
Re: CPU architecture (was Re: Mercury) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-03 00:29 +0000
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-02 19:50 +0000
Re: Mercury Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:53 +0000
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 10:51 +0100
Re: Mercury The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-02 11:15 +0100
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-02 00:12 +0000
Re: Mercury rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-02 00:28 +0000
Re: Mercury c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-01 21:39 -0400
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-02 14:17 +0200
Re: Mercury "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-01 14:47 +0200
csiph-web