Re: Linux at scale

From	vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Linux at scale
Date	2024-08-04 17:54 +0000
Message-ID	<lh9tj0F6q3tU28@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <v7gf9l$3i29q$3@dont-email.me> <slrnvajisi.3e0ab.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> <v8cjq4$1f67q$1@dont-email.me> <lh9ateF6q3tU14@mid.individual.net> <v8o7hq$45kh$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 08:42:50 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote in
<v8o7hq$45kh$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 8/4/24 05:35, vallor wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 22:58:28 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
>> <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote in
>> <v8cjq4$1f67q$1@dont-email.me>:
>> 
>>> On 7/30/24 22:30, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> John McCue <jmccue@hairball.jmcunx.com> wrote at 13:49 this Saturday
>>>> (GMT):
>>>>> followups trimmed to comp.os.linux.misc
>>>>>
>>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>>>>>> "26yh.0712" <26yh.0713@e6t5y.net> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Ah ... wunnerful Winders  :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     It should be banned as a socioeconomic WMD ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine systemd swallowing package management, doing automagic
>>>>>> security updates and such a "MSLinux" monoculture.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see this happening, I think they just swallowed sudo.
>>>>
>>>> You mean polkit?
>>>
>>> 	No he means "sudo" is going to be replaced with "run0."
>>> <https://www.howtogeek.com/will-linux-run0-command-run-sudo-out-of-
town/>
>>> 	Not right away but sooner or later unless it causes even
>>> more problems.  "Sudo" is a bad implementation which replaced "su".
>>> which invoked superuser privileges.  You had to use  your root account
>>> password but Ubuntu decided that was dangerous so to invoke the same
>>> privileges you can use your user accont passwork.
>>> 	Canonical thought apparently that it was asking too
>>> much of their projected userbase to remember User account password and
>>> root password.
>> 
>> Actually, sudo(8) isn't a bad implementation of su(8), it's just
>> "different".
>> 
>> You can set sudo to use the root password, which is what I do for my
>> personal systems.  Requiring the user password is default, and works
>> better for systems with shared administration where you have to control
>> what the person runs.
>> 
>> For cases where you have multiple (remote) administrators that need
>> "root" access, that's better handled with ssh keys and clever key
>> management on the target host.  Another way to handle it is separate
>> usernames (e.g. "suvallor") that have their own home directory, but
>> uid/gid 0.
>> 
>> Quite a few of our systems are multi-user.  Even used to have a
>> customer shell server until demand for that dried up.  Right now, one
>> system is used by employees who need to run tools that interface with
>> our back end systems.  Login credentials are handled with Active
>> Directory, the domain of which is joined with sssd(8).
>> 
>>> 	The system on my computer uses SysV.init and "su".
>>>
>>> bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2024.07- Linux 6.6.42- 5.27.11
>> 
>> Nice!  I've said for a few years now that Linux _is_ ready for most
>> home users, as well as enterprise desktops.
>> 
>> For example, we use MS Teams at work -- I'm not happy about it, but I
>> can use it from Linux through the web site.  Same goes for MS Office.
>> 
>> The problem is you can't take your Linux laptop to (say) Best Buy and
>> expect them to help with a problem.  The legendary "year of the Linux
>> desktop" won't happen until there's some kind of _local_ support
>> network in place.  And a lot of folks will get help with their Windows
>> systems from a relative, who is more likely to have Windows experience
>> than Linux chops.
>> 
> 	Well that Local Support group is available all over
> the place. It is called the Internet and Linux Users Groups. I used to
> be the placeholder whe went into a local cafe and held down space for
> the other users attending. Nearly all Metropolitan areas have local
> Computer Users Groups and I living in San Francisco am a member more or
> less of SF-LUG ,but I write a Linux News Column for the Champaign-
> Urbana Users Group, CUCUG. Aslo in online support we have a very good
> PCLinuxOS Users Forum where we users converge with coders and with
> packagers for help and to help where we are competent with our problems
> on our Laptops and other machines.  One of the now-passed members even
> had his own brand of desktop to sell to anyone who could not run for
> whatever reason PCLinuxOS on the machines available to them. At SF-LUG
> we had a capable hardware person before Covid-19 Restrictions went into
> play.  We have had one real life meeting since then just before the
> Delta Wave.
> 	Maybe SF-LUG will go back to in person meetings
> at some point in the future but I started in my 60s and now I am 87 and
> plagued with many long-term problems. So if it happens soon enough maybe
> one more in person event for me before I abandon Usenet and PCLinuxOS
> along with the rest of the joys of life.
> 
> 	bliss-as old as sin.

At least you're young at heart. :)

When I think of the average computer user, I think of my folks.
(Dad just turned 84.)  I'd love to get them on Linux, but they
have a good chunk of their personal organizing locked up
in MS Access databases.  (I guess I could try to get Access running
in WINE or proton...and you know what?  I should investigate that.)

Regarding support:  you're right about online help, and I could
set up bookmarks for the requisite support forums on their system,
as well as teach them some of the basics of administration.
A lot can be done these days on Linux Mint, even without
the command line.

Just set up my wife's new Linux workstation, and I don't
think I touched a command line getting her configured.
(Wifi drivers were another matter, which I should post about
separately.)

Much different nowadays than way back when, trying to
get the printer working, or setting up modelines for X.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc1 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G

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Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-07-31 05:30 +0000
  Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-30 22:58 -0700
    Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-31 06:23 +0000
      Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-04 12:45 +0000
        Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-04 22:25 +0000
    Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 09:30 +0100
      Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 10:23 +0100
        Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 11:17 +0100
          Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-07-31 07:49 -0700
            Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 16:34 +0100
              Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-07-31 17:45 +0100
                Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-01 01:45 +0000
              Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 17:55 +0100
                Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 09:39 +0100
                Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 10:35 +0100
    Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-07-31 13:41 +0000
      Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 17:52 +0100
    Linux at scale (was: Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-04 12:35 +0000
      Re: Linux at scale Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-04 08:42 -0700
        Re: Linux at scale vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-04 17:54 +0000
          Re: Linux at scale Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-04 22:30 +0000
            MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-05 02:34 +0000
              Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-05 02:45 +0000
              Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-08-04 22:39 -0500
                Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-05 04:10 +0000
                Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 02:09 -0400
                Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-07 01:56 +0000
              Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-05 13:38 +0100
                Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 00:25 +0000
                Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-06 02:56 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 23:37 +0000
                Re: MS Access Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-07 12:38 +0100
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 21:43 +0000
                Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 07:50 +0000
                Re: MS Access Big Al <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-08-08 10:43 -0400
                Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 19:42 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:16 +0000
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-08 17:42 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 01:06 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:38 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:51 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:49 +0000
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 02:48 +0000
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 02:50 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:36 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:52 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:49 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:50 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:51 +0000
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 16:52 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 21:37 +0000
                Re: MS Access sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-08-14 18:22 -0500
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-15 00:30 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 02:22 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 00:14 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-17 07:25 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-08-17 23:44 -0700
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 05:28 -0400
                Re: MS Access Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-08-18 11:49 +0200
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-18 19:36 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 20:42 -0400
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-19 20:44 +0000
                Re: MS Access p.dean@gmx.com (Peter Dean) - 2024-08-19 05:37 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-19 03:18 -0400
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-19 20:51 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 23:55 +0000
                Re: MS Access Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-18 08:43 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 13:55 -0400
                Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-15 04:24 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-15 14:53 -0400
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 00:22 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-17 07:24 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-08-17 23:46 -0700
                Re: MS Access The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-18 10:14 +0100
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-19 23:55 -0400
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-20 04:56 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-19 23:23 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 23:52 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:15 +0000
                Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 06:29 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 06:32 +0000
                Re: MS Access Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-08 12:19 +0100
                Re: MS Access Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-08-08 13:21 +0100
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:15 +0000
                Re: MS Access Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-08-09 08:51 +0100
              Re: MS Access Big Al <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-08-05 09:03 -0400
              Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-08-05 12:05 -0700
                Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-05 19:32 -0400
              Re: MS Access not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-06 08:47 +1000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 00:26 +0000
                Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-07 02:16 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 02:29 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 02:02 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 06:45 +0000
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-07 22:30 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 22:44 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:44 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:11 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:28 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:38 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-12 14:16 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 02:10 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-13 12:53 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:43 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:33 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:44 +0000
                Re: MS Access jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-08-13 23:21 +0100
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 22:53 +0000
                Re: MS Access jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-08-14 09:19 +0100
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:47 +0000
                Re: MS Access The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-14 10:09 +0100
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 02:20 +0000
                Re: MS Access Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-16 09:11 +0100
                Re: MS Access The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-16 09:21 +0100
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-13 23:28 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:29 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-14 04:13 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:48 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-14 12:49 -0400
                Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 16:55 +0000
                Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-11 05:30 +0000
                Re: MS Access Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-11 07:17 +0000
                Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-22 21:00 +0000
                Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-11 04:15 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-11 09:07 +0000
                Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-23 22:00 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-11 09:06 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:39 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:12 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:23 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:39 +0000
                Re: MS Access Just Me <meeeeee@meeeee.com> - 2024-08-07 12:59 +0000
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 21:42 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:53 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:13 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:33 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:41 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:31 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:46 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:42 -0400
                Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:49 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 23:30 -0400
                Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-18 04:48 +0000
                Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-18 01:17 -0400
  Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-06 02:01 -0400

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