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| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 18:39 -0700 |
| References | (2 earlier) <16341816-2ac4-4e08-bc85-002e2c6600bf@o10g2000yqo.googlegroups.com> <kpqifm$ps1$2@dont-email.me> <kpsbuj$qbe$1@online.de> <170e58ea-f4c1-42c9-be67-985b4aafa2ec@n5g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <kpumru$pm2$1@online.de> |
| Message-ID | <fb88f560-45a5-4ff7-9ee9-45db6b518ea8@googlegroups.com> (permalink) |
| Subject | Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? |
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
On Thursday, June 20, 2013 3:51:42 AM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > You need one or two thousand primitives for any serious application. > > In the programming style you used... which is having a CPU where even a 16 > by 16 addition is fairly complicated, but threaded code interpretation is > helped with by parallel execution. Actually, everything is helped by having parallel execution. It is not just NEXT that got parallelized with surrounding code, but there is a lot of code in the primitives that parallelized --- my assembler would rearrange the order of the instructions to maximize parallelization --- typically there were significantly fewer opcodes in the machine code, than there were instructions in the source-code, because so many instructions got packed together. Also, who cares if a 16 by 16 addition is complicated? After it is written, it is a black box to the user, just like your 16 by 16 addition which is written in VHDL --- the user doesn't concern himself with the internal workings of all this stuff, whether it is assembly-language or VHDL. It was expected at Testra that almost all users would just program in Forth, as the assembly-language was way too difficult for most people to learn. I've read a book on VHDL, and it looks relatively easy compared to MiniForth assembly-language --- but I've never actually tried VHDL, so I don't really know how easy or difficult it is. I have programmed in MiniForth assembly-language, so I do know what it is like. Anyway, afaik, there have never been any MiniForth users, as the MiniForth never was used for anything other than the motion-control program that Testra themselves wrote --- that is because Forth is a dead language and nobody wants to program in Forth anymore, and not because there are any flaws in the MiniForth design. > That's not what I do. Your way is just not robust. You are limited to 32 (or 64) primitives, which isn't enough. Even if one or two thousand primitives seems like a lot, I think everybody can agree that several hundred are needed. Even if you increased the number of primitives, for example to 512 which would be a reasonable number, your system is still not robust. The only way you have to write primitives, is VHDL. Every primitive that you write, increases the complexity of your processor --- this makes it more and more difficult to fit it into the small chips, and you end up needing big expensive chips. It is much more robust to have an assembly language to write primitives --- then you can have hundreds or even thousands of primitives, without increasing the complexity of the processor at all. All in all, I am not interested in processors such as the B16 with their tiny set of canned primitives --- they are a dead-end, because they can't really be expanded beyond being toy processors --- they don't scale up.
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Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-16 23:17 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-17 14:19 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-17 16:04 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-17 16:15 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 00:01 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-19 15:33 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:25 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-19 17:00 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 18:35 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-19 17:38 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-20 12:51 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-06-20 15:28 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-20 18:39 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-21 14:50 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-22 18:56 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-23 02:35 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-22 20:48 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-23 14:49 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-26 18:08 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-27 16:32 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 10:10 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 15:18 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 16:01 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 20:22 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-06-30 21:22 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 15:52 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-01 02:02 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-06-30 19:25 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-01 02:34 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 16:26 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-01 23:08 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 18:10 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-01 12:35 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 18:42 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-01 13:03 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-02 07:20 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-02 07:38 -1000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-02 07:24 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-02 13:02 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-02 05:58 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-02 03:34 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-01 20:01 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-02 04:43 +0000
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-02 03:41 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-02 06:09 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 13:51 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 14:37 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? daveyrotten <danw8804@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 14:56 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-03 00:30 +0200
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-03 02:19 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-03 05:18 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 18:10 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-03 05:30 -0400
Static superinstructions(was: OT (slightly) What is the "best" ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-03 14:33 +0000
Re: Static superinstructions(was: OT (slightly) What is the "best" ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-04 00:41 +0200
Re: Static superinstructions(was: OT (slightly) What is the "best" ...) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-07 11:32 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 18:31 -0700
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-07 11:28 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 16:44 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-02 05:56 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-02 05:58 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-07-03 05:57 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-03 06:43 -0500
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 20:29 -0400
Re: OT (slightly) What is the "best" processor for a new project? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 10:58 -0400
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