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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #12229
| From | vandys@vsta.org |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to |
| Date | 2012-05-17 16:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <a1klp7Fgi3U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <2243442.558.1337149672996.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbnx3> <e61df85e-7e7c-41cf-bc15-4f6615b9180f@jx17g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <11e6995a-c86c-41d8-8140-31305030531d@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <jp2bk2$mbo$1@speranza.aioe.org> <_76dne-Wl4qiKCnSnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote:
> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be
> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing
> said flaws.
It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality
provides a meaningful feedback mechanism.
At the high level, Forth lacks the amenities which are used by most modern
programmers. Fine, so we claim Forth is for the low level. But remember
that when I asked for a Forth implementation superior to:
void
memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count)
{
while (count--) {
*dest++ = *src++;
}
}
I got lots of hand waving, but no Forth code (actually, I posted my tries in
both Forth and c18 code, but didn't outdo the C version). Because we all
know that Forth's great at doing something to one value, OK at two, and then
drops off a cliff when an algorithm involves three (or, God help us, more)
values used roughly equally.
So Forth isn't good for high level, it's for low level. But, no, not *that*
kind of low level. It's good at the kind it's good at. You owe it to Forth
to learn it, and if it's sucky, it's you, not the language.
That kind of argument really doesn't hold up when the rest of the world has
adopted languages at both the high and low level which have blown past Forth
and can barely see it in the rear view mirror. Which, in a vibrant
technology usually is the catalyst for an agonizing reappraisal followed by
fundamental changes. In a senescent technology, it's the time when you
circle the wagons and hunker down.
--
Andy Valencia
Home page: http://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: http://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html
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I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-05-15 23:27 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-16 17:50 +1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-16 06:51 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-16 07:59 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-16 09:28 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 04:08 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-16 22:22 -1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 11:43 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 10:22 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 17:03 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 01:15 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 19:19 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-18 12:40 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:17 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:02 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 18:08 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:58 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it to Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-05-17 19:03 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:27 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 18:52 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:18 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:39 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:50 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 04:40 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 15:15 +0300
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:02 -1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:40 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:32 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 01:45 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:28 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-17 21:38 +0100
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 21:17 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 09:41 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:55 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 13:50 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-18 03:24 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 06:10 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 08:10 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:57 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:14 -1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 10:01 -0700
VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-18 12:58 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 09:43 -0500
Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 10:54 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:43 -0500
Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 08:26 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 03:52 -0500
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 04:02 -0500
Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 09:25 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-30 23:39 +0200
Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-31 15:07 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-31 20:24 +0200
Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 15:25 +0000
Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 11:31 +0000
Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:41 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-20 12:49 -0500
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 11:43 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 14:01 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 19:10 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 17:05 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 20:38 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 21:37 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:27 -0700
Re: VFX code quality m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2012-05-21 01:52 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-21 11:06 +0200
Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:34 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-22 08:54 +0200
Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:36 +0000
Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:33 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:29 -0500
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:39 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:22 -0500
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-22 11:25 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-23 03:19 -0500
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 22:51 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:16 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201205.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-05-23 17:36 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 12:57 -0400
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:42 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 19:41 -0400
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:53 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 07:10 -0400
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:36 -1000
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:46 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 20:30 -1000
Re: VFX code quality David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-05-22 14:06 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 08:59 -0400
FP locals (was: VFX code quality) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 13:39 +0000
Re: FP locals Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) C G Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2012-05-22 18:09 -0400
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-23 03:47 -0700
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-05-26 21:03 +1000
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 04:40 -0700
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-26 18:27 +0200
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 12:55 -0700
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-26 14:54 -0700
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 22:02 -0700
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-27 08:50 +0200
Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-27 05:26 -0700
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 09:04 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 09:55 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:22 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 14:19 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:33 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-22 23:14 +0200
Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:31 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:17 -0500
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 13:50 -0700
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 16:47 -0700
Re: VFX code quality "Harry Vaderchi" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2012-05-22 09:57 +0100
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 04:39 -0700
Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-23 20:25 +0200
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-23 13:47 -0700
Re: VFX code quality humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 20:23 +0000
Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 20:22 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:57 +0000
Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-21 01:35 +0200
Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:44 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:53 -0700
Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:32 -0500
Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:44 -1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 00:58 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-20 15:09 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 07:20 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:22 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 22:09 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 04:20 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-19 13:19 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:33 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:49 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-18 07:59 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:32 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:24 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 15:43 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 16:03 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 16:34 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 17:02 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:46 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:33 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 12:10 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:40 -0500
address units (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:40 +0000
Re: address units Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 10:07 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:59 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:22 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:43 +0200
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 23:10 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-17 19:24 -0400
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:38 -0500
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-17 22:30 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-17 10:59 -0700
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-05-20 13:14 +0100
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 11:46 +1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-17 20:10 -1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-05-18 10:32 +0000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 21:27 +1000
Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 22:58 -0700
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