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Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to

From Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to
Date 2012-05-18 10:32 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <jp58f2$rsp$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <2243442.558.1337149672996.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbnx3> <4fb5a9f3$0$3971$c3e8da3$b23f186d@news.astraweb.com>

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On Fri, 18 May 2012 11:46:26 +1000, marko wrote:

> There are two fundemental reasons why forth cannot replace these
> languages, development and delivery infrastructures.

Really? 

There are lots of new languages like Clojure, Scala, etc. that are making 
inroads into old territory. Ruby was obscure (except in Japan) until 
Rails came along. 

Your reasoning could also be applied to Forth in the 1980's, when it had 
was hugely popular. If your resoning is correct, it should have remained 
so. What happened?

Languages succeed (or fail) depending on a variety of factors. IMHO for 
Forth, it is the lack of immediately available facilities/libraries and 
other scaffolding that modern application developers take for granted. 
Forth is in a death-spiral from this point of view because its main 
adherents have an embedded focus, where libraries, etc are viewed with 
some skepticism -- for good reason. But Forth is probably dying even in 
its main niche. I was talking to a young (late 20s?) embedded hardware 
engineer who hadn't even heard of Forth. He thought I meant Fortran. He 
uses C. 

It's sad, because Forth is a beautiful, practical languges which has the 
potential to be relevant even outside it embedded niche.

Cheers,
Arnold

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I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-05-15 23:27 -0700
  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-16 17:50 +1000
  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-16 06:51 -0400
  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-16 07:59 -0700
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-16 09:28 -0700
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 04:08 -0400
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-16 22:22 -1000
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 11:43 +0200
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 10:22 -0400
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 17:03 +0200
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 01:15 +0200
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 19:19 -0400
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-18 12:40 +0000
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:17 +0200
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:02 +0000
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 18:08 +0200
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:58 +0000
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it   to Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-05-17 19:03 +0200
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:27 -0500
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 18:52 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:18 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:39 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:50 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 04:40 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 15:15 +0300
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:02 -1000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:40 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:32 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 01:45 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:28 -0700
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-17 21:38 +0100
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 21:17 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 09:41 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:55 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 13:50 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-18 03:24 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 06:10 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 08:10 -0400
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:57 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:14 -1000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 10:01 -0700
                VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-18 12:58 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 09:43 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 10:54 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:43 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 08:26 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 03:52 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 04:02 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 09:25 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-30 23:39 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-31 15:07 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-31 20:24 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 15:25 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 11:31 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:41 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-20 12:49 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 11:43 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 14:01 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 19:10 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 17:05 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 20:38 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 21:37 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:27 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2012-05-21 01:52 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-21 11:06 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:34 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-22 08:54 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:36 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:33 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:29 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:39 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:22 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-22 11:25 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-23 03:19 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 22:51 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:16 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201205.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-05-23 17:36 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 12:57 -0400
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:42 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 19:41 -0400
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:53 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 07:10 -0400
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:36 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:46 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 20:30 -1000
                Re: VFX code quality David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-05-22 14:06 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 08:59 -0400
                FP locals (was: VFX code quality) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 13:39 +0000
                Re: FP locals Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) C G Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2012-05-22 18:09 -0400
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-23 03:47 -0700
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-05-26 21:03 +1000
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 04:40 -0700
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-26 18:27 +0200
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 12:55 -0700
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-26 14:54 -0700
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 22:02 -0700
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-27 08:50 +0200
                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-27 05:26 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 09:04 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 09:55 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:22 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 14:19 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:33 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-22 23:14 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:31 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:17 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 13:50 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 16:47 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality "Harry Vaderchi" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2012-05-22 09:57 +0100
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 04:39 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-23 20:25 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-23 13:47 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 20:23 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 20:22 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:57 +0000
                Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-21 01:35 +0200
                Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:44 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:53 -0700
                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:32 -0500
                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:44 -1000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 00:58 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-20 15:09 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 07:20 -0400
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:22 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 22:09 -0400
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 04:20 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-19 13:19 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:33 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:49 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-18 07:59 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:32 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:24 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 15:43 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 16:03 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 16:34 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 17:02 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:46 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:33 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 12:10 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:40 -0500
                address units (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:40 +0000
                Re: address units Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 10:07 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:59 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:22 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:43 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 23:10 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-17 19:24 -0400
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:38 -0500
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-17 22:30 +0000
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-17 10:59 -0700
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-05-20 13:14 +0100
  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 11:46 +1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-17 20:10 -1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-05-18 10:32 +0000
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 21:27 +1000
  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 22:58 -0700

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