Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: vandys@vsta.org Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Date: 17 May 2012 16:02:47 GMT Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <2243442.558.1337149672996.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbnx3> <11e6995a-c86c-41d8-8140-31305030531d@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <_76dne-Wl4qiKCnSnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@supernews.com> X-Trace: individual.net x3Ve+6FUovsMrJ2HjAfMwgYePFAn2gVmQbfiaiPwEOGIb9N7kwgnoBEv6BHNjsEh+G X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Cancel-Lock: sha1:wkpUfOKY81rUkeCDjDoZaYFEAsc= User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.6.32-41-generic-pae (i686)) Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:12229 Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be > popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing > said flaws. It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality provides a meaningful feedback mechanism. At the high level, Forth lacks the amenities which are used by most modern programmers. Fine, so we claim Forth is for the low level. But remember that when I asked for a Forth implementation superior to: void memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count) { while (count--) { *dest++ = *src++; } } I got lots of hand waving, but no Forth code (actually, I posted my tries in both Forth and c18 code, but didn't outdo the C version). Because we all know that Forth's great at doing something to one value, OK at two, and then drops off a cliff when an algorithm involves three (or, God help us, more) values used roughly equally. So Forth isn't good for high level, it's for low level. But, no, not *that* kind of low level. It's good at the kind it's good at. You owe it to Forth to learn it, and if it's sucky, it's you, not the language. That kind of argument really doesn't hold up when the rest of the world has adopted languages at both the high and low level which have blown past Forth and can barely see it in the rear view mirror. Which, in a vibrant technology usually is the catalyst for an agonizing reappraisal followed by fundamental changes. In a senescent technology, it's the time when you circle the wagons and hunker down. -- Andy Valencia Home page: http://www.vsta.org/andy/ To contact me: http://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html