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I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to

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  I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-05-15 23:27 -0700
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-16 17:50 +1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-16 06:51 -0400
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-16 07:59 -0700
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-16 09:28 -0700
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 04:08 -0400
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-16 22:22 -1000
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 11:43 +0200
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 10:22 -0400
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 17:03 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 01:15 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 19:19 -0400
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-18 12:40 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:17 +0200
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:02 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 18:08 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:58 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it   to Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-05-17 19:03 +0200
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:27 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 18:52 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:18 -0500
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:39 -0700
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:50 -0500
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 04:40 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 15:15 +0300
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:02 -1000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:40 -0700
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:32 -0500
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 01:45 -0500
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:28 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-17 21:38 +0100
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 21:17 +0000
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 09:41 +0000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:55 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 13:50 +0000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-18 03:24 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 06:10 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 08:10 -0400
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:57 -0700
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:14 -1000
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 10:01 -0700
                      VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-18 12:58 +0000
                        Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 09:43 -0500
                          Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 10:54 +0000
                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:43 -0500
                              Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 08:26 +0000
                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 03:52 -0500
                                  Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 04:02 -0500
                                    Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 09:25 +0000
                                      Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-30 23:39 +0200
                                        Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-31 15:07 +0000
                                          Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-31 20:24 +0200
                        Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 15:25 +0000
                          Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 11:31 +0000
                          Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:41 +0200
                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-20 12:49 -0500
                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 11:43 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 14:01 -1000
                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 19:10 -0700
                                    Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 17:05 -1000
                                      Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 20:38 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 21:37 -1000
                                          Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:27 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2012-05-21 01:52 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-21 11:06 +0200
                                                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:34 +0200
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-22 08:54 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:36 +0000
                                                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:33 +0200
                                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:29 -0500
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:39 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:22 -0500
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-22 11:25 -1000
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-23 03:19 -0500
                                                      Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 22:51 -0700
                                                        Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:16 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201205.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-05-23 17:36 +0200
                                            Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 12:57 -0400
                                              Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:42 -1000
                                                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 19:41 -0400
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:53 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 07:10 -0400
                                            Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:36 -1000
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:46 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 20:30 -1000
                                            Re: VFX code quality David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-05-22 14:06 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 08:59 -0400
                                                FP locals (was: VFX code quality) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 13:39 +0000
                                                  Re: FP locals Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
                                                  Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) C G Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2012-05-22 18:09 -0400
                                                    Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-23 03:47 -0700
                                                      Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-05-26 21:03 +1000
                                                        Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 04:40 -0700
                                                          Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-26 18:27 +0200
                                                            Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 12:55 -0700
                                                              Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-26 14:54 -0700
                                                                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 22:02 -0700
                                                              Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-27 08:50 +0200
                                                                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-27 05:26 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 09:04 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 09:55 +0200
                                          Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:22 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 14:19 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:33 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-22 23:14 +0200
                                        Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:31 +0200
                                          Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:17 -0500
                                          Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 13:50 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 16:47 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality "Harry Vaderchi" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2012-05-22 09:57 +0100
                                                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 04:39 -0700
                                                  Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-23 20:25 +0200
                                                    Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-23 13:47 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 20:23 +0000
                                    Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 20:22 -0700
                                    Re: VFX code quality Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:57 +0000
                              Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-21 01:35 +0200
                              Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:44 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:53 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:32 -0500
                                  Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:44 -1000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 00:58 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-20 15:09 +0000
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 07:20 -0400
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:22 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 22:09 -0400
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 04:20 -0500
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-19 13:19 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:33 -0500
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:49 -0700
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-18 07:59 -0700
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:32 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:24 +0200
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 15:43 -0700
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 16:03 -0700
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 16:34 -0700
                              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 17:02 -0700
                              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:46 -0500
                                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:33 -0700
                                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 12:10 -0700
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:40 -0500
                            address units (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:40 +0000
                              Re: address units Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 10:07 -0500
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:59 +0000
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:22 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:43 +0200
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 23:10 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-17 19:24 -0400
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:38 -0500
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-17 22:30 +0000
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-17 10:59 -0700
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-05-20 13:14 +0100
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 11:46 +1000
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-17 20:10 -1000
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-05-18 10:32 +0000
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 21:27 +1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 22:58 -0700

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#12206 — I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to

and java too

stuff I see at work takes dozens fo gigs ram and still can only fo 18 responses a second, whiel backups take 5 hours

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#12208

quiet_lad wrote:

> and java too
> 
> stuff I see at work takes dozens fo gigs ram and still can only fo 18
> responses a second, whiel backups take 5 hours


We await the release of gavforth

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#12211

"quiet_lad" <gavcomedy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2243442.558.1337149672996.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbnx3...
> and java too
>
> stuff I see at work takes dozens fo gigs ram and still can only fo 18
> responses a second, whiel backups take 5 hours

18/s ...?  Are you joking?  Something is seriously wrong.


Rod Pemberton

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#12214

On May 16, 2:27 am, quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> and java too
>
> stuff I see at work takes dozens fo gigs ram and still can only fo 18 responses a second, whiel backups take 5 hours

but gavino, forth doesn't want to, so the belief is untestable.

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#12215

> > stuff I see at work takes dozens fo gigs ram and still can only fo 18 responses a second, whiel backups take 5 hours

I'd like to see Forth become more successful.  I think that it is
possible for some applications to run faster in Forth than in more
popular languages.  This would probably be as a result of the program
being better composed due to Forth's interactive nature.  Except I
suppose that Java is just going to be slow because of all of it's
internal machinery which make it Java.

Jason

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#12220

"Jason Damisch" <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11e6995a-c86c-41d8-8140-31305030531d@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'd like to see Forth become more successful.  I think that it is
> possible for some applications to run faster in Forth than in more
> popular languages.  This would probably be as a result of the program
> being better composed due to Forth's interactive nature.  Except I
> suppose that Java is just going to be slow because of all of it's
> internal machinery which make it Java.
>

IMO, without change of some sort, Forth isn't going to become "more
successful."  As is, it's as successful as it's ever going to be.  Perhaps,
it should've been more successful, but wasn't justly recognized.  That's a
matter of debate.  Some of the changes needed to make Forth "more
successful" could very well be antithetical to the desires of current Forth
users...  In order to see Forth become "more successful," you must have some
ideas about what to change first.  Do you?  Having some ideas implies
something frustrated you at some point in time with Forth.  I'm sure that's
probably true for most Forth programmers, but they've accepted the pain or
avoid it.  I think many of Forth's original problems have been preserved via
various justifications.  If you don't have some ideas, maybe some questions
will inspire or jog the memory...


What would you change about Forth to make Forth more successful?

What syntax would you change to make Forth more successful?

Are the number of stacks in Forth adequate or insufficient?

Would you prefer a way to use registers directly?

How far would you go with such changes?

Would you suggest C's assignment operators as being useful to encourage more
usage of variables in Forth?

Would you introduce minimal syntax to Forth's parser?  E.g., braces {} .

Would you suggest changing the parser so standard Forth notation, e.g., []
to mark compiling words, is required by Forth?

Would you introduce a type system for Forth?

Would you allow a pointer for >IN instead of an offset?

Would you allow null terminated strings instead of counted strings?

Would you rework Forth so that there were no IMMEDIATE words, but an
immediate operator?

Would you rename Forth's words to what they should be called?

etc


Rod Pemberton

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#12221

On 5/16/12 10:08 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> "Jason Damisch"<jasondamisch@yahoo.com>  wrote in message
> news:11e6995a-c86c-41d8-8140-31305030531d@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I'd like to see Forth become more successful....
>
>
> What would you change about Forth to make Forth more successful?
>
> What syntax would you change to make Forth more successful?
>
> Are the number of stacks in Forth adequate or insufficient?
>
> Would you prefer a way to use registers directly?
>
> How far would you go with such changes?
>
> Would you suggest C's assignment operators as being useful to encourage more
> usage of variables in Forth?
>
> Would you introduce minimal syntax to Forth's parser?  E.g., braces {} .
>
> Would you suggest changing the parser so standard Forth notation, e.g., []
> to mark compiling words, is required by Forth?
>
> Would you introduce a type system for Forth?
>
> Would you allow a pointer for>IN instead of an offset?
>
> Would you allow null terminated strings instead of counted strings?
>
> Would you rework Forth so that there were no IMMEDIATE words, but an
> immediate operator?
>
> Would you rename Forth's words to what they should be called?

It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be 
popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing 
said flaws.

Products succeed in a marketplace for a variety of reasons, of which 
technical excellence isn't nearly as great a component as we would like. 
More powerful influences include timing (right product at the right 
time), product placement (e.g. Bell Labs introducing Unix via 
universities), and marketing (a complex combination of promotion, 
pricing, distribution channels, etc., all of which are well illustrated 
by comparing Windows with MacOS).

I am quite sure that if you did any or all of these things it wouldn't 
change Forth's image in the marketplace one iota, largely because not 
many people would know about it except Forthers, who would prefer what 
they already know.

Forth got off on the wrong foot in the marketplace in the 80's because 
of factors I discussed in a different post. It's hard at this point to 
change perceptions.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#12222

On 17.05.2012 10:22, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/16/12 10:08 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>> "Jason Damisch"<jasondamisch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:11e6995a-c86c-41d8-8140-31305030531d@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> I'd like to see Forth become more successful....
>>
>>
>> What would you change about Forth to make Forth more successful?
>>
>> What syntax would you change to make Forth more successful?
>>
>> Are the number of stacks in Forth adequate or insufficient?
>>
>> Would you prefer a way to use registers directly?
>>
>> How far would you go with such changes?
>>
>> Would you suggest C's assignment operators as being useful to
>> encourage more
>> usage of variables in Forth?
>>
>> Would you introduce minimal syntax to Forth's parser? E.g., braces {} .
>>
>> Would you suggest changing the parser so standard Forth notation,
>> e.g., []
>> to mark compiling words, is required by Forth?
>>
>> Would you introduce a type system for Forth?
>>
>> Would you allow a pointer for>IN instead of an offset?
>>
>> Would you allow null terminated strings instead of counted strings?
>>
>> Would you rework Forth so that there were no IMMEDIATE words, but an
>> immediate operator?
>>
>> Would you rename Forth's words to what they should be called?
>
> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be
> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing
> said flaws.

So true. And there is no real market for programming languages per se, 
unless you tie it to a commercial system or product. See the IBM 
ecosphere, or ABAP for SAP, or MATLAB, to name a few.

Besides Forth has a strong foothold in its "niche". Change it too much 
and it would be just another mee-too-thing. Factor and Joy (although 
coming from another background) tried and failed.

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#12226

"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> wrote in message
news:_76dne-Wl4qiKCnSnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
...

> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be
> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing
> said flaws.
>

I wouldn't attribute that specifically to engineers, but otherwise true.

> Products succeed in a marketplace for a variety of reasons, of which
> technical excellence isn't nearly as great a component as we would like.
> More powerful influences include timing (right product at the right
> time), product placement (e.g. Bell Labs introducing Unix via
> universities), and marketing (a complex combination of promotion,
> pricing, distribution channels, etc., all of which are well illustrated
> by comparing Windows with MacOS).
>

Yes, but the hindight of history also usually reveals which products were in
fact technologically superior, even if they were failures at the time.
History has also shown that bringing back the failed product at the right
time, or introducing a similar product with excellent marketing will prove a
success.  So, if timing and marketing were factors in the failure, the
product has a second chance.  Forth has been around for a long time, but
hasn't found success as compared to some other languages.  To me, what
you're saying is that Forth still hasn't managed to get the correct
combination of technical excellence, timing, marketing, and the other
factors correct despite being around for such a long time.  Given that, at
some point, one must admit that maybe the product isn't so technically
perfect and needs fixing to appeal to others.

> I am quite sure that if you did any or all of these things it wouldn't
> change Forth's image in the marketplace one iota [...]

How do you know that for sure?  Forth is a backend for itself, yes?
(meta-compilation)  So, what if only modest changes were needed for Forth to
be the backend of Java or C?  What if those changes were also some of the
changes needed to change attitudes about programming in Forth?  Overnight,
things would be different for Forth.


Rod Pemberton

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#12228

On 17.05.2012 16:22, Rod Pemberton wrote:

> How do you know that for sure?  Forth is a backend for itself, yes?
> (meta-compilation)  So, what if only modest changes were needed for Forth to
> be the backend of Java or C?  What if those changes were also some of the
> changes needed to change attitudes about programming in Forth?  Overnight,
> things would be different for Forth.

So in the end Forth could be the selfcompiling backend for any of those 
languages used here?

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Man_or_boy_test


How come that Forth isn't even among them?

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#12247

A. K. wrote:
> How come that Forth isn't even among them?

Because real men don't do public penis size competitions.

We had a man-or-boy program here in c.l.f. a while ago (Gerry Jackson, 
Jan 4), using a mini-oof based closure implementation. That's his code 
(without the support stuff to implement lambda expressions):

include xmini_oof.fth 
include lambda.fth 

:lam func {< n >} [: drop n ;] constant ;lam 
1  func one 
0  func zero 
-1 func -one 

defer A 

:lam (A) {< k x1 x2 x3 x4 x5 >} 
       [: {< B >} 
          k 1- to k 
          k B x1 x2 x3 x4 A 
       ;] 
       k 0> if dup exec else drop x4 dup exec x5 dup exec + then 
;lam 
' (A) is A 

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#12249

"A. K." <akk@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:4fb51309$0$6557$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
> On 17.05.2012 16:22, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>
> > How do you know that for sure?  Forth is a backend for itself, yes?
> > (meta-compilation)  So, what if only modest changes were needed for
> > Forth to be the backend of Java or C?  What if those changes were also
> > some of the changes needed to change attitudes about programming in
> > Forth?  Overnight, things would be different for Forth.
>
> So in the end Forth could be the selfcompiling backend for any of those
> languages used here?
>
> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Man_or_boy_test
>

If someone wanted it to be, yes.  I think some changes, or additions of
certain words would help.

> How come that Forth isn't even among them?
>

Most likely because the test's intended purpose is to test certain language
features that languages like Forth and C don't have as native components of
the language.  You can read about that on Wikipedia's page.  Even so, you
can see that C solutions are available, and C doesn't have those language
features.  AISI, it should be easier for Forth than C, since's Forth doesn't
have C's typesystem.  So, someone just needs to find or code a Forth
solution and post it.

From what I understand, the "Man or Boy test" tests the "inheritance" of
procedure local variables of a nested function during recursive function
calls, which generates numerous nested stackframes.  The test checks whether
the saved locals reference the proper saved stackframe, or not.  The more
powerful compiler, i.e., "Man" would generate references to the proper
stackframe.  Of course, Forth doesn't have procedure local variables.  It's
0-operand.  I'd think this would require copying large numbers of stack
items, repeatedly, to duplicate them.  This would probably be done with
Forth's MOVE.  Does Forth have nestable words?  In the context the test uses
them, I think that's a: "No."  You'd need to be able to define one word
inside of another and be able to use both within:

  : not-nested  ... : nested ... ; ... nested ... not-nested ... ;

RECURSE allows for "not-nested" to be used within itself.  But, AIUI, Forth
does not allow defining and using "nested" inside of "not-nested".  Does
Forth have "dualism" (Wikipedia's term) for constants and functions (i.e.,
words)?  Yes.  The CFA or XT provided by ' (tick) is the same size integer
as constants on the data stack.  Forth also has stacks.  I'm not sure what
the other constraint about function references is exactly.  It seems to be
the same as the "duality" to me.  AIUI, Forth is as Turing complete as the
other programming languages, with the constraint that it's limited by the
machine's resources - as are all programming languages.  I.e., the program
to implement the "Man or Boy test" will correctly solve for smaller values,
and then overflow the stack with larger values.  This is true of all
languages.  AIUI, infinite resources are required for true Turing
completeness.

Of course, I'm not from a CompSci background, and am not as familiar with
Turing completeness as I would like to be.

HTH,


Rod Pemberton

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#12276

In article <jp410n$crl$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
Rod Pemberton <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> wrote:
>"A. K." <akk@nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:4fb51309$0$6557$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
>> On 17.05.2012 16:22, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>>
>> > How do you know that for sure?  Forth is a backend for itself, yes?
>> > (meta-compilation)  So, what if only modest changes were needed for
>> > Forth to be the backend of Java or C?  What if those changes were also
>> > some of the changes needed to change attitudes about programming in
>> > Forth?  Overnight, things would be different for Forth.
>>
>> So in the end Forth could be the selfcompiling backend for any of those
>> languages used here?
>>
>> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Man_or_boy_test
>>
>
>If someone wanted it to be, yes.  I think some changes, or additions of
>certain words would help.
>
>> How come that Forth isn't even among them?
>>
>
>Most likely because the test's intended purpose is to test certain language
>features that languages like Forth and C don't have as native components of
>the language.  You can read about that on Wikipedia's page.  Even so, you
>can see that C solutions are available, and C doesn't have those language
>features.  AISI, it should be easier for Forth than C, since's Forth doesn't
>have C's typesystem.  So, someone just needs to find or code a Forth
>solution and post it.
>
>From what I understand, the "Man or Boy test" tests the "inheritance" of
>procedure local variables of a nested function during recursive function
>calls, which generates numerous nested stackframes.  The test checks whether

But also Knuth makes the point that a language that can't do that is not
to be taken seriously as a general purpose language.

<SNIP>

>
>HTH,
>
>
>Rod Pemberton

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#12244

Rod Pemberton wrote:
> How do you know that for sure?  Forth is a backend for itself, yes?
> (meta-compilation)  So, what if only modest changes were needed for
> Forth to
> be the backend of Java or C?  What if those changes were also some of
> the
> changes needed to change attitudes about programming in Forth? 
> Overnight, things would be different for Forth.

Forth is already part of some more popular JavaScript engines, as 
backend for JavaScript.  Oh, as usual, it is a well-hidden secret, and 
no JavaScript programmer is ever exposed to this Forth part.  We all 
benefit significantly, because our browsers are running JavaScript much 
faster now.

The academic answer to this fact was "The Firefox JavaScript engine is 
an utter mess!!!!  There's even a Forth inside!!1111!!!eleven!1!!"

Forth has quite a hard time in computer science.  It's not considered a 
language, as it has no grammar (no abstract syntax apart from the simple 
fact that all words are separated by white space).  I went to the 
"compiler" lecture, it took one semester.  It did not go as far as to 
code generation (that would have been "advanced compilers", and the 
professor was so bad that I considered not to listen to him on this 
topic), but the entire semester was dealing with grammars, with parser 
generators (called "compiler compilers") and all that stuff that is - in 
Forth - done by WORD.  Or nowadays by PARSE-NAME.  Hey, nobody would 
spent more than 30 seconds explaining what PARSE-NAME does, and nobody 
would go to a lecture to understand this thing.

My conclusion of this and other things I've seen is that many people can 
only think in winded, complex ways.  Forth is brutal simplicity.  It's a 
lot of "you don't need this" and "you don't need that".  People start 
with wrong assumptions, and their ego is too small to correct (or admit) 
their mistakes.  So they don't change things, they rather continue to 
follow the winded path they took.

People have a hard time thinking out of the box.  If you give them the 
task "you have 9 dots on a sheet of paper, in a 3 by 3 array.  Connect 
them by straight lines, and find the minimum number of lines to do 
this".  Few people achieve it with less than five lines.  The solution 
is one single line.  You have to wrap the paper around a bottle or some 
other round thing to achieve this, but while the single line in 3D space 
now is no longer straight, it is still straight on the paper (2D), the 
problem space.

IMHO Forth was too early.  Forth was created almost at the same time 
when Algol 68 was designed (by committee).  Algol 68 is utterly complex, 
so complex that it took years to write compilers for it, but when you 
look at it in the hindsight, it is no way as complex as C++.  And C++ is 
one of the most popular languages around.  However, its popularity seems 
to fade, because people actually are overwhelmed by C++'s complexity.  
Including the compiler writers who have a hard time implementing all the 
fancy ideas the standard committee has (they don't work on a "we want a 
reference implementation" base as we do).

So there is now a movement away from Algol and its brain-childs, towards 
more agile, more interactive, and simpler programming languages, but 
they are all still way more complex than Forth.

The other problem of Forth is the toolbox approach programmers are 
taught.  All the popular languages like Java, Perl, Python, etc. have a 
huge set of libraries that do what they are designed to.  It took a long 
time to write each library, and it takes some time to learn how to use 
them.  People believe that "all the complexity to do the complex tasks" 
are hidden inside the library.  The Forth approach to not use such 
libraries, but just solve the problem at hand is just as alien as RPN.

We have done this Google Code Jam thing with the alien language, which 
shows you how the mainstream thinks.  They designed a programming 
exercise (a really simple one), and they desigend it around *the* tool 
people use these days: regular expressions.  Aparently everything can be 
solved by regexps (well, there is a formal proof that this is true ;-).  
Forth is a language where you are told "no, we don't use regexps".  Hey, 
come on, a language without regexp is not a serious language.  You can't 
sell this, not at the moment.

It's like selling a bicycle in California as means of transportation 
(not as sports utility).  The target audience tells you that anything 
less than a 6m long pickup is unacceptable, and you ask "what do you 
achieve?  You sit alone in your pickup, and go 5 miles with an average 
speed of 10mph, because it's all clogged up?  The bike will be faster, 
and come on, it does *not* rain that often here", and then you get all 
these arguments about the dog ("hey, you walk a dog, you don't drive a 
dog"), about cup holders ("you'll wake up when you start pushing the 
pedals, and actually, you can put a bottle here¹"), and finally about 
bike lanes.  There are bike lanes in California.  One is in San 
Francisco, the other is in San Diego (I'm exaggerating a little).  And 
there are actually people who use a bike to drive to work.  I counted 10 
bikes in the parking lot of Infinite Loop Drive 1, Cupertino; one was 
even a recumbent.  There are more Forthers working there than bikers, 
but chances are high that there is an intersection between the two 
groups.

¹) you can even have breakfast on your bike while riding.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#12229

Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote:
> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be 
> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing 
> said flaws.

It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality
provides a meaningful feedback mechanism.

At the high level, Forth lacks the amenities which are used by most modern
programmers.  Fine, so we claim Forth is for the low level.  But remember
that when I asked for a Forth implementation superior to:

void
memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count)
{
    while (count--) {
	*dest++ = *src++;
    }
}

I got lots of hand waving, but no Forth code (actually, I posted my tries in
both Forth and c18 code, but didn't outdo the C version).  Because we all
know that Forth's great at doing something to one value, OK at two, and then
drops off a cliff when an algorithm involves three (or, God help us, more)
values used roughly equally.

So Forth isn't good for high level, it's for low level.  But, no, not *that*
kind of low level.  It's good at the kind it's good at.  You owe it to Forth
to learn it, and if it's sucky, it's you, not the language.

That kind of argument really doesn't hold up when the rest of the world has
adopted languages at both the high and low level which have blown past Forth
and can barely see it in the rear view mirror.  Which, in a vibrant
technology usually is the catalyst for an agonizing reappraisal followed by
fundamental changes.  In a senescent technology, it's the time when you
circle the wagons and hunker down.

-- 
Andy Valencia
Home page: http://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: http://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

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#12230

On 17.05.2012 18:02, vandys@vsta.org wrote:
> Elizabeth D. Rather<erather@forth.com>  wrote:
>> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be
>> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing
>> said flaws.
>
> It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality
> provides a meaningful feedback mechanism.
>
> At the high level, Forth lacks the amenities which are used by most modern
> programmers.  Fine, so we claim Forth is for the low level.  But remember
> that when I asked for a Forth implementation superior to:
>
> void
> memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count)
> {
>      while (count--) {
> 	*dest++ = *src++;
>      }
> }
>
>

You want a superior Forth program? Here it is:

CMOVE

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#12232

A. K. <akk@nospam.org> wrote:
> CMOVE

So you admit Forth is a *user* of a low level language, not one itself.
That's fine so far as it goes, but what Forth primitive will provide:

int
movesum(char *src, char *dest, int count)
{
    int result = 0;

    while (count--) {
	result += (*dest++ = *src++);
    }
    return result;
}

If you're always jumping out to C to do your coding, the obvious question is
whether it's worth the bother of driving it from Forth.

-- 
Andy Valencia
Home page: http://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: http://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

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#12233 — Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it to

vandys@vsta.org wrote:

> Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote:
> > It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be 
> > popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing 
> > said flaws.
> 
> It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality
> provides a meaningful feedback mechanism.

I'll not speak for Elizabeth since she is quite capable of doing that.
Reading your rant, however, I believe you have missed the point.

Not everyone cares about advocacy nor does everyone think popularity is
something valuable. Elizabeth makes a living selling and teaching Forth. She
is in a much better position than you to know whether Forth is good enough
for what it's for, or not. If your arguments were valid, Elizabeth or Steven
or some of the other experts would discuss things with you. The careful
reader will understand the negative from the positive.

Elizabeth is very helpful to people who come with a positive attitude
and want to learn about Forth. And she offers a very nice evaluation version
for people to learn Forth with, and some really excellent doc, excellent by
all standards.

Nobody here is on your payroll and nobody is obligated to meet your little
challenges, indeed they use Forth because they like it and if you like it,
welcome, and if not, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Your posts don't seem to have any productive purpose and most of the people
here are too intelligent not to realize that and you'll be talking to
yourself before very long. However, you probably will find Clod Flipperton
open to your tangents since that's right up his alley. Perhaps you're twins
or even the same person. Regardless, I'm certain nobody cares.

Have a nice day! Bye!

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#12234

vandys@vsta.org wrote:
> Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote:
>> It is a common fallacy among engineers to assume that failure to be 
>> popular is due to inherent product flaws and can be remedied by fixing 
>> said flaws.
> 
> It's a also common mental mechanism ("denial") to not accept that reality
> provides a meaningful feedback mechanism.
> 
> At the high level, Forth lacks the amenities which are used by most modern
> programmers.  Fine, so we claim Forth is for the low level.  But remember
> that when I asked for a Forth implementation superior to:
> 
> void
> memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count)
> {
>    while (count--) {
>        *dest++ = *src++;
>    }
> }
> 
> I got lots of hand waving, but no Forth code (actually, I posted my
> tries in both Forth and c18 code, but didn't outdo the C version).

Forth programs use MOVE for that.  Can you imagine any circumstances
in which any sane person would actually *want* to use an open-coded
memcopy?  I doubt it.  Just about every Forth (and indeed every C
library) in the universe uses a hand-coded loop for that, optimized
for byte/word/etc. copies.

But since you ask, it's:

  over + swap ?do  dup c@ i c!  1+  loop drop

> Because we all know that Forth's great at doing something to one
> value, OK at two, and then drops off a cliff when an algorithm
> involves three (or, God help us, more) values used roughly equally.
> 
> So Forth isn't good for high level, it's for low level.  But, no,
> not *that* kind of low level.  It's good at the kind it's good at.
> You owe it to Forth to learn it, and if it's sucky, it's you, not
> the language.
> 
> That kind of argument really doesn't hold up when the rest of the
> world has adopted languages at both the high and low level which
> have blown past Forth and can barely see it in the rear view mirror.

I'm not so sure.  For many things, Forth is a very neat environment in
which you can get things done.

As a recent example that I can speak of, I wrote an experimental
software transactional memory system.  I know how hard it is to do
this in other languages.  For example, the GCC people have spent a
long time working on STM, and it requires big changes in the guts of
the compiler.  And they aren't writing a transaction engine, this is
just what it took to do the language support.  In an extensible
language, you can do this by writing a program: you don't have to
touch the compiler.  I did the whole thing in about 400 lines of Forth
in a couple of weekends.  As you might expect, the Forth version
doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the C version, so it's not
exactly comparable.  But that's the Forth way: just do what's needed.

Andrew.

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#12238

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote:

>> void
>> memcopy(char *src, char *dest, int count)
>> {
>>    while (count--) {
>>        *dest++ = *src++;
>>    }
>> }
>> ...

( Presumably:
: memcopy ( src dest count -- )
>  over + swap ?do  dup c@ i c!  1+  loop drop
( ; )

Andrew, you're one of the top "real" Forth coders on the group, and
yes, this is probably the best one can do WRT Forth style.  Because
of the stack gymnastics I would've added some stack comments too.
As somebody pretty familiar with both C and Forth, it took me quite a bit
longer to convince myself of the Forth code.

> I'm not so sure.  For many things, Forth is a very neat environment in
> which you can get things done.

How would you modify your version of the code to carry a sum?  (Let's assume
we want to keep the code reentrant, so no global variable.)  I'm guessing
it'd be time to break out locals.

> As a recent example that I can speak of, I wrote an experimental
> software transactional memory system.  I know how hard it is to do
> this in other languages.

That seems like apples and oranges.  The GCC stuff is to integrate shared
memory semantics into basic memory references.  You seem to be talking about
something more like Python Durus?  Where you have your own level of objects
which are used to fetch and store values?

-- 
Andy Valencia
Home page: http://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: http://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

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