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Re: How To Improve This Group

From Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: How To Improve This Group
Date 2025-04-12 06:40 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <slrnvvk2m5.1r6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <T_PJP.168523$J3s7.41897@fx05.iad> <slrnvvhfjo.3j6.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> <Jd8KP.1691733$2zn8.1594217@fx15.iad> <slrnvvi75t.25r.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> <itaKP.1939828$t84d.1783777@fx11.iad>

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On 2025-04-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-04-11 09:44, Borax Man wrote:
>> On 2025-04-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-11 03:02, Borax Man wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-10 08:58, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/9/25 19:40, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 20:55 this Wednesday (GMT):
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 19:00:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, if you COULD get more people to migrate to USENET from traditional
>>>>>>>>>> social media, that would be great. I personally don't think many people
>>>>>>>>>> are going to want to learn a new software for such an old protocol.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, then, maybe they should stop using email.  After all, that protocol
>>>>>>>>> goes back to at least 1975.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most people use a website for email, and Gmail/Outlook.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see nothing but security issues in using web-based e-mail myself. If
>>>>>>> my e-mail is not configured in a client like Betterbird, I also find it
>>>>>>> incredibly inconvenient.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> < snip >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Usenet is still very much viable as is IRC.  All that is required
>>>>>>>>> is for more people to start using it -- again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The case is closed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree, the main problem from my pov is barrier to entry and
>>>>>>>> "precivable" benefits. Yes, obviously, USENET is great for being simple
>>>>>>>> and decrentralized, but the average person would not care/understand
>>>>>>>> what being "decentralized" means, and the simplicity is seen as a
>>>>>>>> drawback. And as for barrier to entry, the only real client people would
>>>>>>>> be likely/willing to use would be Thunderbird, since everything else is
>>>>>>>> either old (again, /I/ don't care, but ppl definitely would), highly
>>>>>>>> specialized FOSS programs that most of the time are targeted to Linux,
>>>>>>>> or a TUI program. And they have to configure the newsreader to connect
>>>>>>>> to a server, FIND a server, etc etc.. and no layman would go through
>>>>>>>> that just for a "retro forum experience that has barely any users". As
>>>>>>>> well as the general tech illiteracy. So, IF the barrier to entry was
>>>>>>>> lowered, and potentially a webapp made, people MIGHT be willing to try
>>>>>>>> it. I think that's a pretty long shot, though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck getting people to use IRC again. I spent my adolescence on
>>>>>>> there, but it is clear that it is not attracting the same kind of people
>>>>>>> three decades later. It's too bad because some networks, like Rizon, are
>>>>>>> doing a fantastic job with their servers. Nonetheless, IRC apparently
>>>>>>> isn't as appealing in its uncensored, decentralized nature as a
>>>>>>> proprietary, centralized social medium like Instagram's comment section is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be honest, I'm glad that neither IRC nor Usenet attract those kinds
>>>>>>> of people anyway. I'd rather know that I'm communicating with
>>>>>>> sufficiently smart individuals on the old networks than the vapid,
>>>>>>> superficial cretins on modern social media.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IRC doesn't have stickers, animated emojis, GIFs.  You cannot review
>>>>>> messages that came through when you were offline.  Almost now changing
>>>>>> of fonts.  No avatars.  It takes a bit to learn (depending on the
>>>>>> client).  No advertising, no extra "features" such as NFTs and skins or
>>>>>> what have you.  No reactions and no branding (ie, logos for chat groups).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm saying this not because I agree, but because this is what people
>>>>>> want.  I do prefer the simplicity of IRC myself, bit IRC is not coming
>>>>>> back.  There are no good mobile clients...
>>>>>
>>>>> Who the heck would want to use IRC on a cell phone anyway? It's made to
>>>>> be used with a keyboard. Anyways, if people want to get off of it in
>>>>> favour of something like Discord, all the power to them. However, I
>>>>> wouldn't want these people to complain once they're faced with a
>>>>> bombardment of advertisements and mass censorship.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People use their phones a lot for chat. Some chat places I hang out on,
>>>> I'd say MOST are on their phone.  Someone younger asked me how I
>>>> responded with lng replies so quickly, and I said I was using my laptop.
>>>> They thought I was *WEIRD*!  It wasn't IRC, but still, the point is
>>>> people just pull out their phones and use that, rather than a keyboard.
>>>> The phone is "just there".  I think its a devolution, a backwards step
>>>> in communication, but thats what is happening.
>>>
>>> I'll say this much: being exposed to today's youth on a daily basis, I
>>> can confirm that this generation is dumber than the previous and that it
>>> too was dumber than the one that preceded it. We're all getting better
>>> at using software, but we're forgetting how to accomplish basic, more
>>> critical tasks. I might have mentioned it before but I use an old
>>> MacBook Air 2017 with Linux Mint in the classroom. From time to time,
>>> while the screen is mirrored to a larger screen in the class, I might
>>> open up a terminal and simply write in "sudo apt upgrade." To the kids,
>>> I'm hacking. Similarly, a student asked me how great my "new" computer
>>> is by asking me how many pings it has. These are kids who don't know how
>>> to write an introduction or a conclusion to a text despite it being
>>> taught to them in both language classes they have, who make mistakes
>>> such as "je n'est pas de question" which translates to "I don't is a
>>> question" in English despite the language being a part of their daily
>>> lives, who don't know whether 6 on 10 is a passing mark, etc.. I guess
>>> it shouldn't be surprising that the progressive political parties get so
>>> much support considering the intellect of the populace.
>>>
>> 
>> Not too many of my generation really knew their way around a computer
>> either.  Some learned it, because you needed to to get Napster working,
>> or install Grand Prix 2 addons or whatever.  The difference is today you
>> don't need to learn anything.  I've seen chimps use phones, whereas back
>> in the early 90s, you kind of had to learn a bit of DOS to do anything
>> on your computer.  Many people learned how to "CD" to a directory,
>> perhaps run "A:setup", start a program, but just that and not much more.
>> You couldn't get far not knowing the OS in the past, but you can get far
>> today.  This is probably true with everything, there is a greater
>> tolerance of ignorance and lower standards.  Technology hides all the
>> details, but that was a trend even 30 years ago when "User Friendly" was
>> a widely used buzzword.  Does this mean the kids are dumber?  Well, hard
>> to say.  Demographics has changed, which adds another variable, but
>> demographic change aside I don't think there has been a loss in
>> intelligence, just more pandering and fewer demands.  Tech companies do
>> their utmost to hide the inner workings, so we have people who have no
>> idea what can actually be done.
>> 
>> I'm often amazed at work how crappy our workflows are, that despite all
>> the computing power, we do things in a really inefficnet way, such as
>> taking screenshots of Excel pages, putting the screenshot in an email,
>> sending it to someone else, for them to enter that data into another
>> excel spreadsheet, which they can't copy and past, because its a
>> screenshot, but have to visually read and type, then send it back to
>> those who sent the screenshot for verification.  There are far, far
>> better solutions, but they simply are not taught about them, are not
>> aware of them.
>> 
>> Probably why stuff gets reinvented all the time.  People forget, or are
>> unware of things like NNTP and IRC, and just reinvent it again.
>
> In the case of NNTP, American Congress seems to have been succesful in 
> killing most of it. If I remember correctly, some poorly informed 
> politician had no idea what was going on on Usenet or even how to use 
> it, but he felt that he could complain about its contents anyway. As a 
> result, ISPs stopped providing a news server. The result is that those 
> of us on Usenet are usually people who lived in the before times and are 
> aware of its existence. I doubt that people under the age of 40 even 
> know what a Usenet is. As for IRC, it is never mentioned to users of the 
> Internet. Few web sites talk about it and ISPs themselves don't even 
> mention its existence. After all, there is no money in it, so why would 
> they bother. Instead, people are told about things like Discord and 
> TikTok because there is a way of monetizing a user's presence on those 
> sites. Once again, the people on IRC are usually Linux users who venture 
> onto their distribution of choice's support channel, or people from he 
> before times who are aware of its existence.
>

Yes, I remember my ISP carried Usenet, and cancelled it.  I'm in
Australia though, so it may be for different reasons.  It could simply
have been too much bother.  It would have taken a lot of bandwidth and
storage for something most customers weren't aware of.  It was sad to
see it go, and I do wish they maintained it, but from a business point
of view, I do understand.  They cancelled it mid or late 2000s, or
possible later.

I suppose then it is our job to mention these technologies and make
people aware of alternatives to the privacy traps and algorthmic
straight jackets that more modern alternatives hoist on thier
victims... um... users...

I set these up for my own personal clique, but they're not much into
communicating anyway, or are simply put or, or confused, by any client
that is not web based or an "app".  Unfortunately, I've not been able to
find a good NNTP web frontend that allows only encrypted connections.
Maybe I'll get to work on modifying an existing one to make it the way I
think it should be.

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Thread

How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-27 19:49 +0000
  Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 16:01 -0400
  Re: How To Improve This Group vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 20:23 +0000
    Re: How To Improve This Group pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:45 +0000
    Re: How To Improve This Group Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-28 11:30 -0400
  Re: How To Improve This Group candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 19:00 +0000
    Re: How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-09 20:55 +0000
      Re: How To Improve This Group candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 23:40 +0000
        Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 19:47 -0400
        Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-09 20:02 -0400
          Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-10 12:58 +0000
            Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 09:02 -0400
            Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-10 09:48 -0400
              Re: How To Improve This Group rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.meow.org.invalid> - 2025-04-10 14:01 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 10:04 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.meow.org.invalid> - 2025-04-10 16:36 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-10 10:13 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.meow.org.invalid> - 2025-04-10 16:26 +0000
              Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-11 07:02 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 03:06 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 08:49 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-11 13:44 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 11:22 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-11 17:40 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 19:30 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-12 02:59 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-12 08:00 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-12 06:40 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-12 08:55 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-12 23:06 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-13 08:47 -0400
          Re: How To Improve This Group candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-10 18:00 +0000
            Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 08:42 -0400
        Re: How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-10 11:08 +0000
          Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-10 13:03 +0000
            Re: How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-10 20:06 +0000
              Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-11 07:10 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 08:50 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-11 12:58 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-11 09:18 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-12 09:41 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-12 10:17 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-12 09:02 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-12 22:58 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-13 08:44 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-13 19:15 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-14 11:52 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-11 17:42 +0000
                Re: How To Improve This Group bill_wilson <bill_w@aol.com> - 2025-04-11 14:34 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 14:38 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 11:41 -0700
                Re: How To Improve This Group Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 14:51 -0400
                Re: How To Improve This Group % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 12:12 -0700
                Re: How To Improve This Group Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-11 20:47 +0000
          Re: How To Improve This Group Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-04-12 09:34 +0000
            Re: How To Improve This Group Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-12 19:58 +0000
              Re: How To Improve This Group % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 13:07 -0700

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