Re: Catalina is Out!

From	Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com>
Newsgroups	uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject	Re: Catalina is Out!
Date	2019-10-09 22:24 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<qnlj76$tn$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <hU6nF.117195$vE1.2269@fx05.fr7> <qnl5hc$9rb$1@dont-email.me> <091020191417319426%nospam@nospam.invalid> <qnlfpm$c9t$1@dont-email.me> <091020191654566132%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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On 09/10/2019 21:54, nospam wrote:
> In article <qnlfpm$c9t$1@dont-email.me>, Andy Hewitt
> <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> For one thing they do NOT usually
>>>> have all the capabilities of a full size desktop machine.
>>>
>>> many times they have more capabilities.
>>>
>>> try using a pencil with your desktop machine, or ar/vr.
>>
>> Never used one on any device, and I ain't likely to ever pay that kind
>> of money for an electronic 'pencil'. I can't think of any task I do on
>> my phone that I can't do on my iMac.
> 
> that's fine for you, however, others find a pencil *very* useful, if
> not required.
> 
> previously, those users needed a wacom tablet, which although
> excellent, is not the same as directly drawing on the display itself.

That's a very specific item, and limited to those who need such a tool.

> and then there's the cameras, gps, accelerometer, compass, direct
> manipulation and other features that do not exist in any shipping mac.

None of which are much use in a desktop machine anyway, although my iMac 
does have a camera.

>>>> Screen size
>>>> and keyboard functionality for a start, storage space and connectivity
>>>> capabilities and so on, and processor performance (including GPU etc).
>>>
>>> recent iphones and ipads benchmark faster than most laptops.
>>
>> So, where did I mention laptop?
> 
> nobody said you mentioned them, but that's what most people use.

I'm not most people.

>> (and which laptops are you comparing to?)
> 
> all of them.

Really? *all* of them!

> <https://twitter.com/elkmovie/status/1174003718188142592>
>    N.B.: the highest Geekbench 5 single-core score for *any* Mac is
>    1262. (2019 iMac 3.6) So the iPhone 11 now offers the fastest
>    single-core performance of any computer Apple has ever made.
> -
>    The new 2019 iPads probably won't improve on that single-core
>    number much, but if they match the 11's increase in multi-core
>    performance they'll be ahead of every Apple portable except the
>    mid-2019 15" MBPs; a *high-end* ARM MacBook Pro seems very
>    much within reach.
> 
> <https://www.howtogeek.com/393139/mobile-cpus-are-now-as-fast-as-your-de
> sktop-pc/>
>    Apple says its new iPad Pros are faster than 92% of all portable
>    PCs thanks to its new A12 X Bionic chip. That¹s already really
>    impressive, but these are tablets. What¹s going on with phones
>    will blow your mind, too.
> 
> <https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-8-benchmarks-fastest-phone,review-4
> 676.html>
>    The A11 Bionic chip inside the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus blows away every
>    other phone (and even some laptops) in synthetic benchmarks and
>    real-world tests.
> ....
>    The iPhone 8 even edged out the score from the 13-inch Apple MacBook
>    Pro with a 7th-generation Core i5 processor. That notebook notched
>    9,213. Is Geekbench 4 really comparable from phone to desktop?
>    According to the founder of Geekbench, John Poole, ³the short is
>    answer is yes that the scores are comparable across platforms, so if
>    an iPhone 8 scores higher than an i5, then the iPhone 8 is faster
>    than the i5.²

Not entirely current or consistent with your comment of 'all of them', 
but there is some validation there (noted the comment of 'even *some* 
laptops').

>>>> Of course they can do an awful lot of what most users need, but IMHO
>>>> nothing like as easily or with as efficient workflows.
>>>
>>> that depends on the task. for some things, they're *more* efficient.
>>
>> Not for almost anything I use a computer for. Unless it's making a phone
>> call. I can't think of anything that isn't improved by using a 27"
>> screen, a proper mouse/trackball, and a full size extended keyboard for
>> almost everything I do.
> 
> you do realize that others have different needs, right?

Of course I do, but I can't speak for them.

> an iphone or ipad fits in a pocket and can go anywhere, while a 27"
> display cannot.

Indeed, that's why I also have an iPhone and an iPad (although I'd be a 
bit pushed to get that into a pocket).

> a full size keyboard works perfectly fine with an iphone or ipad for
> tasks that require a lot of typing.

Indeed it can, although I find a wireless Apple keyboard is not as nice 
to use as a full size wired one (yeah, I use both).

>> Solitaire is quite easy on the iPhone though.
> 
> an iphone can do a *lot* more than just that.

Indeed so.

> people shoot videos *and* edit them on iphones, then upload to youtube
> or whatever, from just about anywhere they happen to be.

Of course they do, I never said they couldn't do it. Not something I do 
though.

-- 
Andy Hewitt

Thread

Catalina is Out! Ian DALGLEISH <ianmethyl@gmail.com> - 2019-10-07 18:30 +0100
  Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-07 17:59 +0000
  Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-07 23:04 +0100
  Re: Catalina is Out! deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-08 07:23 +0100
    Re: Catalina is Out! Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> - 2019-10-08 09:36 +0100
  Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-08 07:18 +0000
    Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-08 08:36 +0100
      Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 07:14 -0400
        Re: Catalina is Out! deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-08 14:53 +0100
          Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-08 14:55 +0100
          Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 09:57 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-08 16:04 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 11:25 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-10-08 16:35 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 12:14 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2019-10-08 16:28 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 12:36 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-09 03:42 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-08 17:21 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-10-08 17:44 +0100
                Boxer 64 bit (was Re: Catalina is Out!) Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-10-08 18:19 +0100
                Re: Boxer 64 bit (was Re: Catalina is Out!) Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-09 01:12 +0100
                Re: Boxer 64 bit (was Re: Catalina is Out!) deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-09 11:48 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-09 11:24 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk> - 2019-10-09 11:25 +0100
        Re: Catalina is Out! Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2019-10-08 08:15 -0700
          Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 11:25 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! Sidney Carton <SC@gmail.invalid> - 2019-10-08 16:41 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! Fred <fredbare@[127.0.0.1]> - 2019-10-08 17:06 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-08 17:08 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 12:14 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-08 20:42 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 16:06 -0400
                Mistaken ID (was - Catalina is Out!) ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-08 21:15 +0100
                Re: Mistaken ID (was - Catalina is Out!) ~BD~ <BD@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-10-13 11:43 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-09 03:50 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 12:46 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-09 14:52 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 19:57 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-09 16:26 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 15:04 -0400
          Re: Catalina is Out! Alan  B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-08 15:48 +0000
          Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-08 19:55 +0000
            Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-12 08:56 +0000
              Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-12 09:13 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-13 10:50 +0000
      Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-08 16:46 -0400
        Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-08 22:07 +0100
          Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-08 17:35 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 13:02 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-09 16:27 -0400
          Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-09 18:31 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 14:17 -0400
              Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-09 21:26 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 16:54 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-09 22:24 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 07:44 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 05:50 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-10 15:41 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 11:35 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-10 17:52 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 12:55 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 02:46 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-11 11:28 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2019-10-11 12:04 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 13:03 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 05:05 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-11 13:09 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-10 18:01 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 13:15 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-10 18:36 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-10 20:24 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2019-10-11 06:11 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 03:17 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-11 16:45 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 04:20 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-10 12:46 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-10 15:34 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 08:07 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-10 16:18 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 02:40 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-11 16:40 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 09:03 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-11 17:13 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-14 03:04 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-14 16:07 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2019-10-14 08:14 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-14 20:23 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-14 20:32 +0100
                Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-10-14 17:31 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-14 20:24 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-10-14 20:29 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-14 21:44 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Alan  B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-14 20:49 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-14 22:05 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Alan  B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-14 21:26 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-10-14 23:39 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-11 17:48 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-10 16:29 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 22:33 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 04:14 -0700
              Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-10 12:25 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 04:37 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 07:44 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> - 2019-10-10 12:46 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-10 15:28 +0100
        Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-09 04:06 -0700
          Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 07:09 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 12:50 +0100
              Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 07:58 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 13:05 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-09 08:33 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 12:17 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 04:08 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 07:44 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-11 10:48 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 08:45 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-11 20:01 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-11 11:49 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-14 02:50 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2019-10-11 15:51 +0000
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-11 12:15 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2019-10-09 09:25 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-09 22:39 +0100
          Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-09 17:03 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 03:58 -0700
              Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-10 07:44 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 05:52 -0700
          Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-09 16:39 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-10 04:34 -0700
              Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-10 16:28 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 03:20 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-11 10:02 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-11 08:41 -0700
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-11 20:12 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-11 16:31 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-11 21:54 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <BD@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-10-15 10:51 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-11 19:42 -0400
                Re: Catalina is Out! RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2019-10-12 15:11 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! ~BD~ <Bo@ter.nomail.invalid> - 2019-10-12 16:34 +0100
                Re: Catalina is Out! Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2019-10-16 13:07 -0400
  Re: Catalina is Out! Ian DALGLEISH <ianmethyl@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 09:09 +0100
    Re: Catalina is Out! Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> - 2019-10-08 09:41 +0100
      Re: Catalina is Out! Ian DALGLEISH <ianmethyl@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 10:25 +0100
    Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-08 09:03 +0000
      Re: Catalina is Out! Ian DALGLEISH <ianmethyl@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 10:23 +0100
        Re: Catalina is Out! Alan  B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-08 10:13 +0000
          Re: Catalina is Out! Ian DALGLEISH <ianmethyl@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 13:34 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-10-08 14:29 +0100
            Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-08 14:53 +0100
  Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-09 00:26 +0100
    Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-09 01:13 +0100
    Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-08 19:33 -0400
    Re: Catalina is Out! Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> - 2019-10-09 18:32 +0100
      Re: Catalina is Out! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2019-10-09 19:31 +0100
        Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-09 19:05 +0000
          Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 15:09 -0400
            Re: Catalina is Out! Alan B <alanrichardbarker@nospamgmail.com.here> - 2019-10-09 19:13 +0000
              Re: Catalina is Out! nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-10-09 15:18 -0400
  Re: Catalina is Out! Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2019-10-08 18:10 +0100
  Re: Catalina is Out! Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2019-10-16 22:15 +0000
    Re: Catalina is Out! whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> - 2019-10-17 05:05 -0700
      Re: Catalina is Out! Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> - 2019-10-17 12:09 +0000

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