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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #42291
| From | "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: New to the group |
| Date | 2015-09-30 21:03 -0400 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <op.x5syj4juyfako5@localhost> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <muffhj$k1n$1@dont-email.me> <4340f7c0-4267-494e-988f-bdf6d3c8af0f@googlegroups.com> <NIudncrvPvOGDZbLnZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@supernews.com> <mug52t$gss$1@dont-email.me> <97f1036b-2ca0-488f-a630-566994f8e58d@googlegroups.com> |
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 19:21:04 -0400, <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote: > The word "ambiguous" doesn't belong in a language standard, because > it doesn't standardize anything. Errors should not result in ambiguous > conditions --- they should be handled in a consistent well-defined manner. Exactly. Such situations are potentially exploitable by hackers depending on what occurs for a specific Forth the "ambiguous" situation. The result is that to ensure safety _all_ such situations should be blocked, which most likely will cause Forth programs using established historical Forth behaviors to crash, halt, hang, or function incorrectly. Didn't you learn this already with your ANS experience? > The situation is actually much worse than Chris realizes. Over 50 > of the words in the standard have this sentence in their definition: > "Interpretation semantics for this word are undefined." Yes, you almost need a STATE-aware Forth with another word like IMMEDIATE or SMUDGE just to mark the "over 50" words with undefined execution semantics. How else can you selectively enable and disable execution semantics for these words? ... Anton is bound to respond to this by stating that a STATE-aware Forth is not required. > Rather than define this as an error however, the ANS-Forth document > defines it as "undefined" (section 6.1.1700 above), and "undefined" > is just another word for "ambiguous" because it doesn't standardize > anything. So, you disagree with Ms. Rather on Forth-83 being a bad standard? It eliminated "ambiguous" situations by specifically defining the integer sizes, etc. > Now the weirdness deepens! We have section 4.1.2 with the ominous > heading: "Ambiguous Conditions." One of the ambiguous conditions > is: "attempting to obtain the execution token, (e.g., with 6.1.0070 ', > 6.1.1550 FIND, etc.) of a definition with undefined interpretation > semantics." What this means is that using tick or FIND on a word > such as IF is an ambiguous condition, and anything can happen. With "over 50" such words with "ambiguous" conditions, you'd really have to wonder what the point of having a mandatory CORE and CORE EXT set of words is, wouldn't you? ... With roughly 133 CORE and 46 CORE EXT words, that would mean only 62% of CORE words and only 72% of CORE and CORE EXT are useable interactively. It would almost seem like they don't want you to use Forth interactively anymore Hugh ... I'm just waiting for you to stop ranting about Forth and embrace C. Supposedly, you already programmed in C before. So, I don't know why the delay in your conversion remains. Rod Pemberton -- Just how many texting and calendar apps does humanity need? Just how many food articles from neurotic millenials do we need?
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New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 15:17 -0700
Re: New to the group mentificium@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 17:35 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 21:16 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 07:27 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 14:43 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 13:05 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 12:57 -1000
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-27 17:00 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 17:16 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:31 -0400
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-27 18:57 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 19:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:53 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 19:02 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 23:33 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 04:51 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 12:39 -0400
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 14:29 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 07:18 -0700
Re: New to the group foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 08:07 -0700
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 17:23 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 11:16 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 14:25 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-29 09:05 +0000
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 20:31 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 13:20 -0700
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 22:52 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 16:40 -0700
Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 08:41 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-28 11:41 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 21:33 -0700
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-28 19:13 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 00:51 -0400
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:26 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:55 -0400
Re: New to the group Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-09-30 08:29 +0100
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:52 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 00:29 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 04:40 -0700
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 05:24 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 07:33 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:11 -0700
Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-29 16:46 +0000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:15 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:34 -0400
Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-30 00:07 +0000
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:54 -0700
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-26 22:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:51 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:15 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:58 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 22:03 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-29 21:32 -1000
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 09:06 +0100
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 08:58 -1000
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 23:55 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 21:28 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:25 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 09:33 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 16:21 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 21:03 -0400
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 19:34 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 23:47 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:31 -0400
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 00:30 -0400
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-01 19:22 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 23:52 -0700
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 01:52 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 08:36 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:00 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 14:46 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 18:10 -0400
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 16:08 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 20:44 -0400
Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-10-31 06:54 -0400
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-22 06:45 -0500
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:16 -1000
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 18:21 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:38 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:13 -0400
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-03 22:24 +0100
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:33 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 17:00 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 20:38 -0400
Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-02 14:37 -0400
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:01 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-02 23:35 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 18:11 -0400
Re: New to the group Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-01 02:13 +0200
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 08:38 +0100
Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-30 10:58 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 06:04 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 09:46 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:07 +0000
Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 04:04 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 10:29 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-09 15:30 +0000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 00:19 -0700
Re: New to the group visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-10-03 17:01 -0700
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:38 +0000
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-07 21:15 -1000
Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 13:39 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 08:13 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 00:55 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 10:43 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 06:56 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:44 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-09 14:02 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 09:44 +0100
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-10 11:36 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:40 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:53 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 11:22 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:33 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 20:38 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-09 20:56 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 20:10 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-02 03:05 +0100
Re: Minimal wordset "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-01 16:08 -1000
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-02 09:35 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 12:42 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 23:22 -0800
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:25 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-08 12:56 +1100
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-08 16:14 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-09 11:55 +1100
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 09:41 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:29 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 17:01 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:27 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-09 23:11 -0400
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 08:38 +0100
Re: New to the group dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-10-14 23:14 +0000
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-14 16:21 -1000
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-15 08:46 +0000
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 09:23 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-03 09:19 -1000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 05:24 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-08 08:22 -1000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 10:44 -0700
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