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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #42542
| Date | 2015-10-10 08:38 +0100 |
|---|---|
| From | Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) |
| Message-ID | <20151010083820.6a70eeb3@TP-T500> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <2015Oct8.083842@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <7I-dnQl_lpiNhYvLnZ2dnUU7-RmdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2015Oct8.153955@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <d07d6ea6-b70c-4259-8269-a3ed372364a1@googlegroups.com> <op.x59shskoyfako5@localhost> |
On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 23:11:42 -0400 "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> wrote: > You can make an AND using NANDs, but if the hardware has > direct support for AND, then you'll AND for AND. It's the > the lowest, supported functionality, i.e., the "primitive". > You can still reduce the wordset buy implementing NAND and > eliminating AND, but then you're doing extra work to get > AND from NAND, i.e., slower. Agreed. Also, on a regular micro I would not call this reducing of the word list "factoring" because: 1) Once you have AND working, you can copy&paste,and change one instruction to get OR XOR and +, so there is almost no design effort or aditional testing required. 2) Defining AND and others in terms of NAND increases complexity, hence the resulting speed reduction. > Hasn't a basic minimum wordset which would work with VHDL > already been found by Charles Moore for his various > microprocessors? Yes, Chuck's F18A has just NEGATE + AND XOR [1], but because he is designing hardware there are real benefits. By not implementing OR and NEGATE the chip is simpler, transistor count is reduced, and the opcode size is kept small, just 5 bits. Interestingly, if Chuck's design tools were anything like VHDL then he could also cut&paste to get the 'missing' instructions, but unlike a processor hosted Forth, this would still increase size and complexity. @Rod, Thanks for the links, will have another good read sometime. Jan Coombs -- email valid, else fix dots and hyphen jan4clf2014@murrayhyphenmicroftdotcodotuk [1] F18A Technology Reference, GreenArrays, Inc Terminology note: In this manual XOR is called 'or', and NEGATE is called "-" "Standards - everybody should have one" CM(?)
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New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 15:17 -0700
Re: New to the group mentificium@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 17:35 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-26 21:16 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 07:27 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 14:43 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 13:05 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 12:57 -1000
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-27 17:00 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 17:16 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:31 -0400
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-27 18:57 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 19:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 20:53 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-27 19:02 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-27 23:33 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 04:51 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 12:39 -0400
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 14:29 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 07:18 -0700
Re: New to the group foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 08:07 -0700
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 17:23 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 11:16 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 14:25 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-29 09:05 +0000
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 20:31 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 13:20 -0700
Re: New to the group Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-09-28 22:52 +0200
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 16:40 -0700
Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 08:41 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-28 11:41 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-28 21:33 -0700
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-28 19:13 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 00:51 -0400
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:26 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:55 -0400
Re: New to the group Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-09-30 08:29 +0100
Re: New to the group jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-09-29 18:52 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 00:29 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 04:40 -0700
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 05:24 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 07:33 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:11 -0700
Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-29 16:46 +0000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-29 14:15 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:34 -0400
Re: New to the group "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-30 00:07 +0000
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:54 -0700
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-26 22:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 10:51 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:15 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 21:58 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 22:03 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-29 21:32 -1000
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 09:06 +0100
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 08:58 -1000
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 23:55 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 21:28 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:25 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 09:33 -0700
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 16:21 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 21:03 -0400
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-09-30 19:34 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 23:47 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 08:31 -0400
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 00:30 -0400
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-01 19:22 -1000
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-01 23:52 -0700
Re: New to the group Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 01:52 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 08:36 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:00 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 14:46 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 18:10 -0400
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 16:08 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-02 20:44 -0400
Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-10-31 06:54 -0400
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
Re: New to the group David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-22 06:45 -0500
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <too@zxcvfeqad.cdm> - 2015-11-02 02:34 -0500
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:16 -1000
Re: New to the group Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-02 18:21 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-02 15:38 -1000
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:13 -0400
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-03 22:24 +0100
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:33 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-30 17:00 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 20:38 -0400
Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-02 14:37 -0400
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 17:01 -0400
Re: New to the group hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-02 23:35 -0700
Re: New to the group "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-30 18:11 -0400
Re: New to the group Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-01 02:13 +0200
Re: New to the group Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-09-30 08:38 +0100
Re: New to the group Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-09-30 10:58 -0400
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 06:04 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 09:46 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:07 +0000
Re: New to the group Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 04:04 -0700
Re: New to the group rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 10:29 -0400
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-09 15:30 +0000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 00:19 -0700
Re: New to the group visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-10-03 17:01 -0700
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:38 +0000
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-07 21:15 -1000
Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 13:39 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 08:13 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 00:55 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 10:43 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 06:56 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:44 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-09 14:02 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 09:44 +0100
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-10 11:36 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:40 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 19:53 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 11:22 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:33 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-09 20:38 +0200
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-09 20:56 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 20:10 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-02 03:05 +0100
Re: Minimal wordset "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-01 16:08 -1000
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-02 09:35 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 12:42 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 23:22 -0800
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:25 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 19:36 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-08 12:56 +1100
Re: Minimal wordset stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-08 16:14 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-11-09 11:55 +1100
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 09:41 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 11:29 -0500
Re: Minimal wordset anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 17:01 +0000
Re: Minimal wordset JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-09 11:27 -0700
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-10-09 23:11 -0400
Re: Minimal wordset (was: New to the group) Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-10-10 08:38 +0100
Re: New to the group dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-10-14 23:14 +0000
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-14 16:21 -1000
Re: New to the group anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-15 08:46 +0000
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 09:23 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-03 09:19 -1000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 05:24 -0700
Re: New to the group "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-08 08:22 -1000
Re: New to the group lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-09 08:37 -0700
Re: New to the group Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 10:44 -0700
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