Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #59145

Re: Recognizers discussion

From "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Recognizers discussion
Date 2017-05-13 13:33 +1000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <of5uq2$klb$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <oea4r7$kr1$1@dont-email.me><puGdnWMqZa2NQJXEnZ2dnUU7-LvNnZ2d@supernews.com><xn0kpmi4x1ikmbc003@nntp.aioe.org> <oeoifk$ndt$1@gioia.aioe.org><xn0kpqvce30zrvt002@nntp.aioe.org><2017May9.162525@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <6tednStqKok3Io_EnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@supernews.com>

Show all headers | View raw

Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/9/17 4:25 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
> > "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> writes:
> >>> Waiting until you have a need before implementing something isn't just
> >>> a great way to determine its worth, it's an effective use of time and
> >>> resources.
> >>
> >> That's called YAGNI (You Ain't -- or Aren't -- Gonna Need It): "Always
> >> implement things when you actually need them, never when you just
> >> foresee that you may need them."
> >
> > A variant of this principle as advocated by some posters in this
> > newsgroup is
> >
> > "Never implement things, even if they are simple to implement.  When
> > these things are needed, instead of spending the minutes it takes to
> > implement them (or adapt an existing implementation), better spend
> > many hours arguing why they are not needed.
>
> I haven't actually seen that here. What I have seen is a resistance to
> implement something "because LanguageX has it and we need to compete and
> besides somebody might want it someday." It's always a good thing to
> implement (or adopt an existing implementation of) something you *need*
> because when you need it you know exactly how in *this app* you need it
> to work.

Which is the antithesis of what 'standard libraries' offer.  General purpose
libraries by definition must cater to a variety of situations leading to
unnecessary code and inefficiency.

If general purpose libraries isn't what 'standard forth' is about - then what is?
That should be obvious.  Ideology.  Vested interests having declared 'forth
needs x' then proceed to impose their particular form of it.  For example,
telling implementers they can choose between having a standard, or having
a combined stack f/p, was blackmail pure and simple having no technical
basis.  Some would say Forth has suffered from the ability of implementers
to reject standards.  I think it's the only thing that has kept Forth alive and
honest.

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 15:27 +0100
  Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 07:52 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:19 -0700
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:27 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:55 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 02:38 -0700
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 15:16 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:05 +0100
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:23 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:26 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:03 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 12:44 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:36 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:28 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:13 -0500
  Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 12:35 -0500
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 18:53 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:10 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:22 +0100
        Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 22:53 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-03 07:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 10:58 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:53 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-06 01:21 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:22 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-06 23:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 22:36 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:38 -0500
            Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 04:49 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 05:03 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 09:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:24 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:08 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:56 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:37 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 11:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 20:55 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:47 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:07 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 07:59 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 12:42 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:43 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:10 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:25 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:33 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 08:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 11:10 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 16:14 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 13:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-05 23:29 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:56 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 22:42 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:08 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 08:51 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:59 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 22:04 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 22:09 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:50 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-07 21:33 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:12 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:21 -0700
                FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 12:35 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:50 -0700
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 03:39 -0500
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 20:59 -0700
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:03 -0700
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:10 +0100
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:24 -1000
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:37 -0700
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 22:53 -1000
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:53 +0100
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:00 +0300
                Re: FP stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 01:02 -0700
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:06 +0300
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:58 +0000
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 14:17 +0300
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:09 +0100
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 15:05 +0000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-10 11:43 +0200
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-10 18:34 +1000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:45 +0000
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-11 19:13 +1000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:50 -0500
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:18 +0000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 12:12 -0500
                Re: FP stack stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-11 13:53 +0000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 15:43 +0000
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 08:48 -0700
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:31 +0000
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 10:18 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 15:37 -0500
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 17:25 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 22:55 -0500
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 14:24 +1000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-13 13:44 +0200
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-10 05:58 -0500
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 13:50 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:25 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 11:39 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:49 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 21:15 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 14:16 +1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 08:57 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 07:54 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:30 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-03 14:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:42 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:51 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-04 22:29 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:41 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:06 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 07:36 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:21 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:24 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-04 20:17 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-05 11:03 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 00:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-05 13:15 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-06 16:49 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:00 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 14:17 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 15:46 +0100
          Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:50 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:11 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 13:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 15:57 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-12 14:17 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-02 09:25 -1000
    Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 01:19 +0200
    Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:50 +0000
      Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-08 11:43 +1000
        Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-08 19:17 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 14:25 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:22 -1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 13:33 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-12 21:32 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 07:12 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:30 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 11:37 -0400
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:51 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-05 07:31 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 20:35 +0200
          Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 12:27 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-05 15:03 -0500
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 16:26 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 18:17 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:26 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 21:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:58 -0500
              Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 10:39 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 23:39 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 17:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:40 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-08 16:25 +0200
              Flash (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 10:51 +0000
                Re: Flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 08:06 -0500
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 13:57 +0000
                Re: Flash Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-07 16:46 +0200
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:16 +0000
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:18 +0100
                Re: Flash albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-07 21:45 +0200
                Re: Flash Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 12:54 -0700
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:33 +0100
                Re: Flash Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 08:50 -0700
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:21 +0000
    Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 10:07 -0700

csiph-web