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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #58637

Re: Recognizers discussion

From Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Recognizers discussion
Date 2017-05-04 13:05 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <oef58u$ft7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <qqWdnRvCDcNAf5TEnZ2dnUU7-VudnZ2d@supernews.com> <c2d8153b-bd31-4f7b-9c39-879593fbac56@googlegroups.com> <CNydnXpq7pPYmZfEnZ2dnUU7-UHNnZ2d@supernews.com> <oed4bh$lno$1@dont-email.me> <kOSdnS3PQK0jRpfEnZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 5/4/2017 08:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
>> There are some specific occasions when this doesn't work. How about
>> object A with method CUT and object B with method CUT.
>>
>> A CUT
>> B CUT
>>
>> How does CUT know how to find the CUT method in the object? Can we
>> efficiently compile this?
> 
> Yes, of course.  Dynamic method dispatch: standard object-oriented
> technology, in use for decades.

Agreed. But;

1. The object doesn't need to be more complicated that a struct for this 
to require quite a lot of runtime overhead in method LEFT for structure 
RECTANGLE. MYRECT.LEFT not only makes it obvious, it makes it efficient 
at runtime. The amount of baggage at runtime that LEFT requires is not 
trivial.

2. It's (potentially) tickable.

3. We're also transferring the runtime overhead back into the recognizer 
at compile time where it belongs.

> 
>> We're forced into duck typing (bleuch!) and the truly awful object
>> method system that Win32Forth uses.
> 
> I don't know about Win32Forth, but I'd use a combination of inline
> caching and a hash lookup.  This is conventional for OO languages.  I
> wouldn't expect a significant overhead when compared with all the
> other work that a program has to do.

It does use a similar technique, based on classes defined as mini 
wordlists plus a bit. It had (it's possible it still has, I've not 
checked in a number of years) a terrible hash function; the hashes for 
GET and SET collided. Hashes are notoriously difficult to test, as any 
cryptographer will tell you.

-- 
Alex

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Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 15:27 +0100
  Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 07:52 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:19 -0700
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:27 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:55 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 02:38 -0700
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 15:16 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:05 +0100
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:23 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:26 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:03 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 12:44 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:36 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:28 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:13 -0500
  Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 12:35 -0500
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 18:53 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:10 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:22 +0100
        Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 22:53 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-03 07:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 10:58 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:53 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-06 01:21 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:22 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-06 23:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 22:36 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:38 -0500
            Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 04:49 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 05:03 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 09:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:24 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:08 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:56 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:37 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 11:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 20:55 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:47 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:07 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 07:59 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 12:42 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:43 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:10 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:25 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:33 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 08:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 11:10 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 16:14 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 13:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-05 23:29 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:56 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 22:42 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:08 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 08:51 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:59 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 22:04 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 22:09 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:50 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-07 21:33 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:12 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:21 -0700
                FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 12:35 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:50 -0700
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 03:39 -0500
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 20:59 -0700
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:03 -0700
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:10 +0100
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:24 -1000
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:37 -0700
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 22:53 -1000
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:53 +0100
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:00 +0300
                Re: FP stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 01:02 -0700
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:06 +0300
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:58 +0000
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 14:17 +0300
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:09 +0100
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 15:05 +0000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-10 11:43 +0200
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-10 18:34 +1000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:45 +0000
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-11 19:13 +1000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:50 -0500
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:18 +0000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 12:12 -0500
                Re: FP stack stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-11 13:53 +0000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 15:43 +0000
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 08:48 -0700
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:31 +0000
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 10:18 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 15:37 -0500
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 17:25 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 22:55 -0500
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 14:24 +1000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-13 13:44 +0200
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-10 05:58 -0500
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 13:50 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:25 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 11:39 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:49 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 21:15 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 14:16 +1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 08:57 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 07:54 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:30 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-03 14:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:42 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:51 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-04 22:29 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:41 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:06 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 07:36 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:21 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:24 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-04 20:17 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-05 11:03 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 00:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-05 13:15 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-06 16:49 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:00 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 14:17 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 15:46 +0100
          Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:50 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:11 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 13:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 15:57 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-12 14:17 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-02 09:25 -1000
    Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 01:19 +0200
    Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:50 +0000
      Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-08 11:43 +1000
        Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-08 19:17 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 14:25 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:22 -1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 13:33 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-12 21:32 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 07:12 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:30 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 11:37 -0400
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:51 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-05 07:31 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 20:35 +0200
          Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 12:27 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-05 15:03 -0500
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 16:26 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 18:17 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:26 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 21:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:58 -0500
              Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 10:39 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 23:39 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 17:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:40 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-08 16:25 +0200
              Flash (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 10:51 +0000
                Re: Flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 08:06 -0500
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 13:57 +0000
                Re: Flash Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-07 16:46 +0200
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:16 +0000
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:18 +0100
                Re: Flash albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-07 21:45 +0200
                Re: Flash Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 12:54 -0700
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:33 +0100
                Re: Flash Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 08:50 -0700
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:21 +0000
    Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 10:07 -0700

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