Re: Recognizers discussion

From	"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Recognizers discussion
Date	2017-05-06 16:49 +1000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<oejrlm$1bn9$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
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minforth@arcor.de wrote:
> Am Freitag, 5. Mai 2017 03:04:03 UTC+2 schrieb HAA:
> > Alex wrote:
> > > On 5/4/2017 13:29, HAA wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > Do you use Hugh's portable library code?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean the novice.fth? If that, then no. It's huge and full of stuff I
> > > don't have a use for.
> > >
> > > The interdependencies of various parts are overkill; you can't use any
> > > of the functions in the bottom half of the monolithic lump of source
> > > because they depend on (some fairly oddball) definitions in the first half.
> > >
> > > It also has (had? I never know when or where Hugh reissues it to fix
> > > bugs, even though he claims never to write buggy software) some serious
> > > pitfalls due to late binding. I also dislike the overuse of ABORT" on
> > > what feels like every second line.
> > >
> > > This lack of divisibility is a criticism of other libraries too; I've
> > > used the Forth Foundation Library (FFL), but again the interlocking
> > > nature of the parts is problematic. I have used small parts and still
> > > do, but some of it I have rewritten just to gain some clarity in my own
> > > code without the overload of a third party's style.
> >
> > In other words the culture of Forth is not to use portable libraries per se.
> > Forthers would rather see what others have done and pick out those parts
> > which are applicable, modifying and refashioning them according to their
> > needs and style.  An author of a Forth 'portable library' would be mistaken
> > to believe his code is going to be used verbatim, and the effort put into
> > making the code compliant - perhaps at the expense of efficiency - largely
> > wasted.
>
> The pre-dominant Forth culture in c.l.f. is micro-optimization, refining the basic
> wheels all over again. Dont complain, it's intellectually challenging and it's fun.

c.l.f. is entertainment.

> However in a real world environment, the Forth "culture" is about efficiency and deep
> control of the target system. You don't reinvent the wheels here, you build
> applications on a reliable base. Most of our engineers don't even know that there is
> some Forth deep within that base, and they'd give a sh....  They only want their job
> done quickly and never come back because of customer complaints.

I assume you're talking about managers.  Well I think that's true in every field.
What matters is whether you can trust them to do *their* job.

Thread

Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 15:27 +0100
  Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 07:52 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:19 -0700
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 08:27 -0700
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:55 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 02:38 -0700
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 15:16 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:05 +0100
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:23 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 17:26 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:03 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 12:44 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:36 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:28 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:13 -0500
  Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 12:35 -0500
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 18:53 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:10 -0500
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 19:22 +0100
        Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 22:53 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-03 07:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 10:58 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:53 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-06 01:21 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:22 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-06 23:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 22:36 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:38 -0500
            Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 04:49 -0700
              Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 05:03 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 09:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:24 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:08 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:56 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:37 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 11:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 20:55 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:47 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:07 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 07:59 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 12:42 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:43 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:05 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:10 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:25 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 15:33 +0300
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 08:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 15:54 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 11:10 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 16:14 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 13:02 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-05 23:29 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:56 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 22:42 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:08 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 08:51 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 09:59 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 10:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 22:04 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 22:09 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:50 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-07 21:33 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:12 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:21 -0700
                FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 12:35 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 20:50 -0700
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 03:39 -0500
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 20:59 -0700
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:03 -0700
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:10 +0100
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:24 -1000
                Re: FP stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:37 -0700
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 22:53 -1000
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 08:53 +0100
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:00 +0300
                Re: FP stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 01:02 -0700
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:06 +0300
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:58 +0000
                Re: FP stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 14:17 +0300
                Re: FP stack Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:09 +0100
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 15:05 +0000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-10 11:43 +0200
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-10 18:34 +1000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 09:45 +0000
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-11 19:13 +1000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:50 -0500
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:18 +0000
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 12:12 -0500
                Re: FP stack stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-11 13:53 +0000
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 15:43 +0000
                Re: FP stack Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 08:48 -0700
                Re: FP stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-11 16:31 +0000
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 10:18 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 15:37 -0500
                Re: FP stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 17:25 -1000
                Re: FP stack Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 22:55 -0500
                Re: FP stack "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 14:24 +1000
                Re: FP stack albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-13 13:44 +0200
                Re: FP stack Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-10 05:58 -0500
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 13:50 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 00:25 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 11:39 +0000
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:49 -0700
                Re: FP stack (was: Recognizers discussion) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 21:15 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-09 14:16 +1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 08:57 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-03 07:54 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 11:30 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-03 14:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-03 18:42 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:51 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-04 22:29 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 13:41 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 09:06 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 12:22 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 07:36 -0500
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:21 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-18 21:24 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-04 20:17 +0200
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-05 11:03 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 00:16 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-05 13:15 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-06 16:49 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:00 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-09 14:17 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 15:46 +0100
          Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 11:50 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:11 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-10 13:49 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 15:57 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-12 14:17 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-02 09:25 -1000
    Re: Recognizers discussion albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-03 01:19 +0200
    Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:50 +0000
      Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-08 11:43 +1000
        Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-08 19:17 +0000
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 14:25 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-09 21:22 -1000
              Re: Recognizers discussion "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 13:33 +1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-12 21:32 -1000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 07:12 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:30 +0000
  Re: Recognizers discussion rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 11:37 -0400
    Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 17:51 +0100
      Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-05 07:31 +0000
        Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 20:35 +0200
          Re: Recognizers discussion minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 12:27 -0700
          Re: Recognizers discussion Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-05 15:03 -0500
          Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 16:26 +0000
            Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 18:17 +0100
              Re: Recognizers discussion Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:26 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 21:39 +0100
            Re: Recognizers discussion Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:58 -0500
              Re: Recognizers discussion Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 10:39 +0100
                Re: Recognizers discussion Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 23:39 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-07 17:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:40 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizers discussion Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-08 16:25 +0200
              Flash (was: Recognizers discussion) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 10:51 +0000
                Re: Flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 08:06 -0500
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 13:57 +0000
                Re: Flash Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-07 16:46 +0200
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 16:31 +0100
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:16 +0000
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:18 +0100
                Re: Flash albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-07 21:45 +0200
                Re: Flash Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 12:54 -0700
                Re: Flash Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 19:33 +0100
                Re: Flash Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 08:50 -0700
                Re: Flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 17:21 +0000
    Re: Recognizers discussion Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 10:07 -0700

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