Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446762

Re: Vaccinations

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Vaccinations
Date	2017-02-08 05:23 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o7erfb$16l$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <efsp1fFk4stU1@mid.individual.net> <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com> <1rjpmd-5qu.ln1@coop.radagast.org> <4o9k9c57icf6k6d45qbpauoj5uol8f5hnu@4ax.com> <o7erdi$skf$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2/8/2017 5:22 AM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:
> AT Wednesday 08 February 2017 04:03, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
>> Platt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>,
>>> John Larkin  <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
>>>> immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
>>>> some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
>>>> diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.
>>>
>>> Yes, that's entirely plausible.  There are plenty of viral diseases
>>> which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but
>>> other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely
>>> asymptomatic.  In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the
>>> effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only
>>> in people with one specific allele, and not in others.
>>>
>>>> I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses.
>>>
>>> Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is
>>> always a tradeoff.  The immune system has to distinguish between
>>> "self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self"
>>> molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and
>>> accepting the other two.  This isn't an easy distinction, and there
>>> are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the
>>> other.  If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies
>>> (e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get
>>> auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever,
>>> Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes).
>>>
>>> In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess"
>>> which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!".  Instead, the
>>> body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the
>>> fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the
>>> process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X
>>> to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up
>>> again in the future.  Hence, vaccination:  dose the body with a
>>> harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to
>>> stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction.
>>>
>>>> Are viruses so clever?
>>>
>>> As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say
>>> "sloppy".  The virus gene-replication process can be rather
>>> error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next
>>> generation of viruses to be significantly different than the
>>> previous.  As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging
>>> or neutral.  In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat"
>>> (i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by
>>> antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus.
>>>
>>>> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
>>>> transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
>>>> horizontal transmission.
>>>
>>> As to horizontal gene transmission:  you betcha!  Virus transmission
>>> of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the
>>> development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way
>>> bacteria exchange genes but it does happen.
>>>
>>> Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which
>>> are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is
>>> these sort of viral "left-overs".  Although none of these HERVs are
>>> actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged
>>> by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact
>>> and active.  There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not
>>> exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in
>>> the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta.
>>>
>>> http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the-
> placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html
>>
>> It is creepy to think that we are each a walking collection of human
>> cells, viruses, mites, bacteria, fungi, parasites, symbiotes, jumbles
>> of other critters' DNA and RNA and proteins.
>>
>> And clothing. Clothes are a major component of our evolution.
>
> By cells count you consist of more foreign than you own cells.

Also quantity of different DNA.

-- 

Rick C

Thread

Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 17:50 -0700
  Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 16:55 -0800
    Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:26 -0500
  Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 17:56 -0700
    Re: Vaccinations "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-06 17:01 -0800
    Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 18:04 -0700
    Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 12:21 +1100
      Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 18:57 -0700
        Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:17 +1100
          Re: Vaccinations Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com> - 2017-02-07 10:22 +0800
          Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:35 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:39 +1100
              Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 23:31 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:47 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-06 20:46 -0800
            Re: Vaccinations bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 02:20 -0800
            Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-07 11:30 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-07 12:03 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:22 +0800
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:23 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:39 +0800
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:12 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:38 +0100
                Re: Vaccinations M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2017-02-09 19:27 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 16:59 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:09 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:39 +0100
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:05 -0500
        Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:45 -0500
        Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:21 +0000
    Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:19 +0000
      Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 04:20 -0500
        Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 09:42 +0000
    Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:57 +0000
      Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-07 11:12 -0700
        Re: Vaccinations "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> - 2017-02-07 15:43 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 21:15 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-08 07:46 -0600
              Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:45 -0500
              Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-08 11:33 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:19 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:57 +0000
              Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 18:32 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 12:09 -0700
        Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-07 21:08 +0000
          Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 12:45 +0100
            Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:00 +0000
              Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-08 11:28 -0700
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:33 -0500
              Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:26 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 23:09 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 15:33 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 15:42 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 23:43 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 20:56 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 10:58 +0100
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 05:35 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 12:54 +0100
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:20 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 13:38 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 14:56 +0100
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:47 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:16 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 16:40 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 11:04 -0600
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 09:15 -0600
                Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:36 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:41 -0800
          Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 09:12 -0800
            Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 09:36 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 12:40 -0800
            Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 11:51 -0700
            Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-09 15:02 +0000
              Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:52 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:46 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-09 21:12 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 19:01 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 08:23 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-10 12:23 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 18:09 +0000
      Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:31 -0500
  Re: Vaccinations artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2017-02-06 17:28 -0800
    Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 19:11 -0700
      Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:34 -0500
  Re: Vaccinations Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2017-02-07 01:52 +0000

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