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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446761
| From | Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design |
| Subject | Re: Vaccinations |
| Date | 2017-02-08 18:22 +0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o7erdi$skf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <gaai9clacrl68reg4ahqu6hj4a070d2nbb@4ax.com> <efsp1fFk4stU1@mid.individual.net> <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com> <1rjpmd-5qu.ln1@coop.radagast.org> <4o9k9c57icf6k6d45qbpauoj5uol8f5hnu@4ax.com> |
AT Wednesday 08 February 2017 04:03, John Larkin wrote: > On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave > Platt) wrote: > >>In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>, >>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are >>>immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely >>>some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That >>>diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus. >> >>Yes, that's entirely plausible. There are plenty of viral diseases >>which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but >>other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely >>asymptomatic. In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the >>effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only >>in people with one specific allele, and not in others. >> >>>I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses. >> >>Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is >>always a tradeoff. The immune system has to distinguish between >>"self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self" >>molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and >>accepting the other two. This isn't an easy distinction, and there >>are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the >>other. If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies >>(e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get >>auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever, >>Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes). >> >>In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess" >>which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!". Instead, the >>body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the >>fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the >>process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X >>to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up >>again in the future. Hence, vaccination: dose the body with a >>harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to >>stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction. >> >>> Are viruses so clever? >> >>As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say >>"sloppy". The virus gene-replication process can be rather >>error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next >>generation of viruses to be significantly different than the >>previous. As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging >>or neutral. In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat" >>(i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by >>antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus. >> >>> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal >>>transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is >>>horizontal transmission. >> >>As to horizontal gene transmission: you betcha! Virus transmission >>of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the >>development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way >>bacteria exchange genes but it does happen. >> >>Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which >>are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is >>these sort of viral "left-overs". Although none of these HERVs are >>actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged >>by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact >>and active. There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not >>exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in >>the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta. >> >>http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the- placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html > > It is creepy to think that we are each a walking collection of human > cells, viruses, mites, bacteria, fungi, parasites, symbiotes, jumbles > of other critters' DNA and RNA and proteins. > > And clothing. Clothes are a major component of our evolution. By cells count you consist of more foreign than you own cells. -- Reinhardt
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Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 17:50 -0700
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 16:55 -0800
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:26 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 17:56 -0700
Re: Vaccinations "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-06 17:01 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 18:04 -0700
Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 12:21 +1100
Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 18:57 -0700
Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:17 +1100
Re: Vaccinations Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com> - 2017-02-07 10:22 +0800
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:35 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:39 +1100
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 23:31 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:47 -0500
Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-06 20:46 -0800
Re: Vaccinations bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 02:20 -0800
Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-07 11:30 -0800
Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-07 12:03 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:22 +0800
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:23 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:39 +0800
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:12 -0800
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:38 +0100
Re: Vaccinations M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2017-02-09 19:27 -0500
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 16:59 -0800
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:09 -0800
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:39 +0100
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:05 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:45 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:21 +0000
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:19 +0000
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 04:20 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 09:42 +0000
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:57 +0000
Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-07 11:12 -0700
Re: Vaccinations "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> - 2017-02-07 15:43 -0500
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 21:15 -0500
Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-08 07:46 -0600
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:45 -0500
Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-08 11:33 -0800
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:19 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:57 +0000
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 18:32 +0000
Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 12:09 -0700
Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-07 21:08 +0000
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 12:45 +0100
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:00 +0000
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-08 11:28 -0700
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:33 -0500
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:26 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 23:09 +0000
Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 15:33 -0800
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 15:42 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 23:43 +0000
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 20:56 -0500
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 10:58 +0100
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 05:35 -0500
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 12:54 +0100
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:20 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 13:38 +0000
Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 14:56 +0100
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:47 -0500
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:16 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 16:40 +0000
Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 11:04 -0600
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 09:15 -0600
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:36 +0000
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:41 -0800
Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 09:12 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 09:36 -0800
Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 12:40 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 11:51 -0700
Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-09 15:02 +0000
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:52 +0000
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:46 -0800
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-09 21:12 -0500
Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 19:01 -0800
Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 08:23 +0000
Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-10 12:23 -0500
Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 18:09 +0000
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:31 -0500
Re: Vaccinations artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2017-02-06 17:28 -0800
Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 19:11 -0700
Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:34 -0500
Re: Vaccinations Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2017-02-07 01:52 +0000
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