Groups > sci.physics > #591948

Re: Misconceptions about LIGO

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Misconceptions about LIGO
Date	2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<no1vc2$1vaa$4@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<33b9439d-684c-4211-837d-032c37e8e19c@googlegroups.com> <2135367.jE0xQCEvom@PointedEars.de> <ad912c03-f24a-442d-8f58-b1b7f6292af3@googlegroups.com>

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On 8/2/2016 6:09 AM, jay moseley wrote:
> Thomas Lahn wrote...
>> It was not the "pressure" of a gravitational wave that "displaced mirrors", but a
>> gravitational wave is a propagating *spacetime distortion* that *changes the length
>> of objects when it passes through them*. As a result, the laser light travels a
>> longer or shorter distance than if the gravitational wave would not pass through
>> the experiment, …
>
> You are propagating a falsehood.
> It is only an assumption that a gravitational wave was detected.
> In fact the designers of the template matching software admit
> that in each detector billions of potential candidates are recorded.
> Not three. And these billions are essentially from any source, most
> local to the detectors. That includes seismic events, and sources
> such as construction noises etc. Furthermore these billions of chirps
> all have the requisite profile of the theoretical profile predicted
> for a merging black hole pair.
> The only  thing that makes each of these billions of chirps observed
> in each detector a potential 'gravitational wave'...is if a similar shaped
> profile in the same  frequency range is seen in both detectors within
> the theoretical time limit of milliseconds dictated by GR.
> In other words there are many more, thousands even millions of
> events detected in both detectors that match the profile of a theoretical
> BH merger. But these occur outside the time limit and therefore cannot
> be attributed to a merging event.
> The conclusion can only be that the two events "detected" so far are
> more likely to be coincidental local seismic events.  After all if you are
> looking at billions of similar shaped chirps caused by local seismic events
> in each detector. The chances are that one or two in a few billion
> will occur within milliseconds in both detectors.

Actually, you are overestimating the likelihood that those signals are 
merely coincidental background signals.

There is a well defined method to determine what the actual background 
rate is due to these coincidences, and I believe Steve Carlip both 
pointed to the paper where this is described and summarized the results. 
The result, to remind you, is that the likelihood that the "millions" of 
events would replicate the event initially reported is that this would 
be coincidental background once in over 40,000 years. Therefore, what 
you say is "more likely to be coincidental local seismic events" is in 
fact much much LESS likely to be coincidental local seismic events.

> It is a fantasy that these are caused by gravitational waves.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 00:03 -0700
  Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:40 +0200
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:58 +0200
    Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-02 04:09 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 14:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-03 01:48 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:51 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:36 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:04 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-04 20:48 +0200
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 14:13 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 22:04 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:30 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:00 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:11 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:15 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:27 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:42 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:31 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 17:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 23:05 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 16:47 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:20 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:39 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 10:37 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:48 +0200
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:55 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:15 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:09 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:26 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:32 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:57 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:17 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:37 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:24 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:42 -0700
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:21 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:16 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 10:35 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-03 21:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 13:16 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 17:06 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-03 15:39 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:29 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:58 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:07 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 09:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 16:39 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-05 05:26 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:14 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:23 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:49 +0200
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:02 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 05:12 -0700
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 12:50 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:28 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 20:55 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 10:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 12:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:10 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:12 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:31 -0500
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 18:25 -0700

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