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Re: Misconceptions about LIGO

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Misconceptions about LIGO
Date 2016-08-05 08:04 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <no22sc$5op$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <9f0666e1-fc7b-4701-934c-cce6b05da0cf@googlegroups.com> <nnspbs$1o91$1@gioia.aioe.org> <bf3ee666-3525-4be3-b1b0-a79161875c10@googlegroups.com> <nnvq06$1pkj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <52d37c76-a329-4f1f-88ac-ef933309ef17@googlegroups.com>

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On 8/5/2016 3:08 AM, jay moseley wrote:
> Odd wrote...
>> No, don't think so. Refer to the paper where those rates are actually MEASURED.
>
>> The rate at which you get an accidental coincidence of seismic chirps that could
>> potentially mimic the gravitational signal is once every 40,000 years
>
> Maybe your paper pretends theory predicts once every 40,000 years
> for a random detection.

No. The once every 40,000 years is not a prediction of general relativity.
It is a result of a MEASUREMENT of the noise rate in the detectors.
That's the point.
This is a basic experimental technique, which you are apparently 
oblivious to.
It goes like this.
1. A true signal would appear in two detectors within 10 ms.
2. So you know that any fake signals would be separated by MORE than 10 
ms. So start looking for what you KNOW is background.
3. The way you do that is to time shift the stream of noise in one 
detector by MORE than 10 ms, and then try to find things that LOOK like 
signal but you KNOW are not signal.
4. MEASURE the rate at which this happens.

> But I was discussing facts not fiction.
> Facts are that each detector detects 100 of billions of candidate chirps in
> *each detector* over the detection period of a few months.
> Contact the LIGO template software team. They will confirm this.
>
> If you do even a rough calculation thats at least a hundred
> candidate chirps detected in *each detector* every 10 ms!
> Not one every 40,000 years! Do your maths.

You have not done this correctly. See the correct approach above.

If you want to know what's wrong with yours, here's a start. First of 
all, the chirp lasts 100 ms or so, so when you say a back-of-envelope 
calculation tells you there are at least a hundred of these chirps 
inside every 10ms window, that's 1000 chirps overlapping in 100ms. You 
don't see a problem recognizing a chirp at that rate?

> Consider that if the the detection period were over 3 months with
> 750,000,000 seperate 10 ms batches, each 10ms having 100 candidate
> chirps detected in both detectors. Thats 100*750,000,000 potential
> coincidences occuring from both detectors over three months within
> the prerequisite 10 ms time parameter.
> Not too hard then to only match those with very close profiles and end up
> with just three *coincidental* chirps detected over three months.
> If you just look at the facts and  do your  maths then you can see
> that the three "gravitational wave detections" were in fact 3 coincidental
> detections of  similar shaped chirps in both detectors taken from a potential
> total of trillions of coincidental detections.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 00:03 -0700
  Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:40 +0200
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:58 +0200
    Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-02 04:09 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 14:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-03 01:48 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:51 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:36 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:04 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-04 20:48 +0200
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 14:13 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 22:04 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:30 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:00 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:11 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:15 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:27 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:42 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:31 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 17:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 23:05 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 16:47 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:20 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:39 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 10:37 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:48 +0200
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:55 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:15 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:09 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:26 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:32 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:57 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:17 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:37 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:24 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:42 -0700
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:21 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:16 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 10:35 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-03 21:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 13:16 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 17:06 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-03 15:39 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:29 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:58 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:07 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 09:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 16:39 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-05 05:26 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:14 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:23 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:49 +0200
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:02 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 05:12 -0700
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 12:50 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:28 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 20:55 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 10:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 12:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:10 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:12 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:31 -0500
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 18:25 -0700

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