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Re: Misconceptions about LIGO

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Misconceptions about LIGO
Followup-To sci.physics.relativity
Date 2016-08-03 21:32 +0200
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <1891850.irdbgypaU6@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References <33b9439d-684c-4211-837d-032c37e8e19c@googlegroups.com> <2135367.jE0xQCEvom@PointedEars.de> <3592e73f-65f4-498b-b4aa-6c6c346a3541@googlegroups.com>

Followups directed to: sci.physics.relativity

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mapou001@gmail.com wrote:

> […] First, attack the messenger

I do not have to “attack the messenger”.  I only have to state the facts.  
Ms. Lopez *discredits herself* by posting statements of the form “not even 
wrong” to scientific fora *all day long*.  This "petition" merely adds to 
her nonsense.

> and then argue that the machine behaved as was expected by theory.

The "machine" (I do not think that a laser, a collection of mirrors, and a 
detector can be called a “machine”, not even if you consider computers, , 
which are machines, evaluating the results; contrast that with the LHC which 
really *is* a huge machine with a lot of magnets to begin with) was designed 
to *test* the theory, not only to confirm it.  Big difference.

Contrary to crackpots, scientists to not assume that a theory is correct 
(which really means “makes predictions that fit observations well enough, 
until a theory comes along that makes predictions that fit observations even 
better”) *before* they have confirmed it by experiment.

> The truth is that gravitational waves do not exist simply because gravity
> is an instantaneous or nonlocal phenomenon,

Evidentially and evidently, it is neither.  One does not even have to 
investigate gravitational waves (which LSC was not the first to do, BTW) to 
know that.  You cannot have the first clue of physics if you seriously claim 
that.

> just as Newtonian physics assume.

Newton’s law of universal gravitation (Newtonian gravity) has been 
*demonstrated* to be *wrong* whenever large mass or high speed are involved, 
starting with the precession of the perihelion of Mercury (there: large 
mass, namely that of Sol and its planets).  Mercury in its orbit was _not_ 
and is _not_ where Newtonian gravity predicts it to be; it was and is very 
closely there where general relativity (GR) predicts it to be instead.

So GR is *evidently* the *better* of these two theories of gravitation.  
Fortunately, as any good/better theory does, GR reduces to theories 
confirmed before:

It reduces to Newtonian gravity for the case where masses are small; IOW, 
Newtonian gravity is a *special case* of general relativity, the same as 
Newton’s laws of motion are *special cases* of special relativity for slow 
speeds.

  ,---------------------------------------------------.
  : General relativity                                :
  : ,-----------------------------------------------. :
  : : Special relativity                            : :
  : : ,-------------------------------------------. : :
  : : : Newton’s laws of motion                   : : :
  : : : ,---------------------------------------. : : :
  : : : : Newton’s law of universal gravitation : : : :
  : : : `---------------------------------------' : : :
  : : `-------------------------------------------' : :
  : `-----------------------------------------------' :
  `---------------------------------------------------'
  
And that is what you crackpots do not seem to get to store on your 
harddisks: Modern physics does _not_ deny that Newton’s laws are correct (in 
the sense described above) and applicable; but it has *showed* that Newton’s 
laws are not *universally* correct and applicable.

To claim otherwise is equivalent to assuming something ridiculous such as 
that "followers of GR" and *all scientists preceding them* (which did not 
know about GR, but knew about Mercury’s precession from observation) have 
found a way to continuously *put* the *planet* of Mercury where it is 
supposed to be according to GR in such a way that *no* individual living on 
Terra and observing the night sky can tell that they did.  That way lies 
madness, complete and utter insanity.

> Therefore the whole LIGO thing was a fraud.

Ex falso quodlibet.  Or, IOW, *you* are the fraud as you pretend to know 
what you are talking about.

It would therefore be acceptable if you finally got lost.

F'up2 <news:sci.physics.relativity>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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Thread

Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 00:03 -0700
  Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:40 +0200
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:58 +0200
    Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-02 04:09 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 14:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-03 01:48 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:51 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:36 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:04 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-04 20:48 +0200
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 14:13 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 22:04 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:30 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:00 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:11 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:15 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:27 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:42 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:31 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 17:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 23:05 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 16:47 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:20 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:39 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 10:37 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:48 +0200
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:55 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:15 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:09 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:26 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:32 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:57 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:17 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:37 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:24 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:42 -0700
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:21 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:16 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 10:35 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-03 21:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 13:16 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 17:06 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-03 15:39 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:29 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:58 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:07 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 09:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 16:39 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-05 05:26 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:14 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:23 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:49 +0200
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:02 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 05:12 -0700
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 12:50 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:28 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 20:55 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 10:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 12:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:10 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:12 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:31 -0500
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 18:25 -0700

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