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Groups > sci.physics > #591619

Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition)

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition)
Date 2016-08-02 12:40 +0200
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <2135367.jE0xQCEvom@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References <33b9439d-684c-4211-837d-032c37e8e19c@googlegroups.com>

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mapou001@gmail.com wrote:

> PETITION: Prof. Karsten Danzmann, please answer 3 questions on the
> measurement of gravitational waves in connection with the LIGO Experiment.
>  
> https://www.change.org/p/prof-karsten-danzmann-beantworten-sie-bitte-3-fragen-über-das-ligo-experiment
> 
> 
> Don't let the lying and thieving assholes win. Fight them with all your
> strength.

Let it be noted that the petitioner is 
<http://www.crankwatch.com/wiki/index.php/Jocelyne_Lopez>, a Frenchwoman and 
“physics layman” (Physiklaie) now “living in Germany”, who, according to 
that reference, has been trolling “several German-speaking Web fora since 
about 2003“, and whose “blog has been banned” repeatedly by service 
providers due to “a lot of insults, denials, antisemitism, and severe 
violations of personal rights in them”.  See the reference for details.  
(The Google Translate translation of that Web site from German into English 
is, as usual, inadequate, but should be sufficient for the dedicated 
English-speaking reader to tell where the motivation for that petition comes 
from.)

Some of her ridiculous "physical" statements include these on light 
(translated by me, emphasis by me):

  “[…] Light does exist, but you could say that in only exists in very few
   places in nature.  Because *light is not created in the universe* [sic!],
   light is only created in our eyes.  Light does not exist outside
   our eyes, or, IOW, light is invisible outside our eyes.
   […]
   This shows, paradoxically, that light is mostly invisible.  The photons
   or impulses that *are created* by the innumerable light sources *in the 
   universe* [sic!] do move […] but we do not see their motion; their motion
   is not perceptible and not observable by us, we only see the few [sic!] 
   that accidentally hit our retina and only let light be created in our
   eyes.  Without the existence of the retina of observers, the universe is 
   completely dark, there is no light there.”

As for the "petition" itself:

  “[…] There are, however, very great doubts in the international scientific 
   community as to whether the measurement accuracy required to register
   gravitational waves can be achieved at all by current measurement
   techniques and technology: […]”

What does she dream of at night?  Being a physics laywoman, how can she even 
know about what the consensus in the “international scientific community” is 
or what the “current measurement techniques and technology” are?  There is 
no evidence available (and she certainly does not provide any) that there 
would be doubt among scientists that this precision can be achieved; 
precisely *because* of the size of the detector that was *built* so that 
this precision could be achieved, and the diligence involved in eliminating 
other causes for the results.

   “On 14th Sept. 2015, during a period of approx. 0.2 seconds, the LIGO
    detectors are supposed to have registered a displacement of the 40 kg 
    mirror of the interferometer by 10^(-18) m due to the pressure of a
    gravitational wave stemming from the fusion of two black holes at a
    distance of 1.3 billion light years.”

From which we can clearly see that she has absolutely no clue what she is 
talking about.

First of all, it was not that "the mirrors were displaced", but the 4 km 
long arms of the detectors were shortened and lengthened; there are full 
mirrors at the end of each arm and semipermeable mirrors where the arms are 
crossing, to deflect the *laser light* into the detector unit.

It was not the "pressure" of a gravitational wave that "displaced mirrors", 
but a gravitational wave is a propagating *spacetime distortion* that 
*changes the length of objects when it passes through them*.  As a result, 
the laser light travels a longer or shorter distance than if the 
gravitational wave would not pass through the experiment, and because light 
is an *electromagnetic* *wave*, the pattern of interfering rays of laser 
light changes.  (And laser light created by commercially available lasers 
can have wavelengths down to 157 nm = 1.57 × 10⁻⁷ m.  Put simply, the 
wavelength is the distance from one crest of a wave to the next one.)

*That* is what was observed, and since all other known phenomena to cause 
that change could be excluded, the cause had to be a gravitational wave.  
Further analysis then showed where the wave must have come from.

That LIGO consists of *two* detectors *several thousand kilometers apart* 
(in Livingson, LA, and Hanford, CT) is an additional bonus, because that 
allows one to see that the gravitational waves actually traveled (all at
the speed of light) from the source to one detector, through it, from it
to the other one, through that, and on in the universe.

See also: <http://www.ligo.org/science/faq.php>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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Thread

Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 00:03 -0700
  Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:40 +0200
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 12:58 +0200
    Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-02 04:09 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-02 14:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-03 01:48 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:51 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:36 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:04 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-04 20:48 +0200
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 14:13 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 22:04 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:30 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:00 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:11 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 06:15 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:27 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:42 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:31 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 17:30 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 23:05 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:22 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 16:47 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:31 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-05 22:20 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:21 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-06 10:39 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 10:37 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 13:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:48 +0200
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 11:55 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:15 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:09 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 16:26 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:32 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:57 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:17 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:37 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-08 18:24 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0400
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 13:32 -0500
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-05 01:42 -0700
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:21 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:16 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
    Re: Misconceptions about LIGO (was: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-02 10:35 -0700
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-03 21:32 +0200
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 13:16 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 17:06 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-08-03 15:39 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:25 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 21:29 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:58 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:07 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 08:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 06:48 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 07:16 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 09:08 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-08-04 16:39 +0000
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:20 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-05 05:26 -0700
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 11:14 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:23 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-05 20:49 +0200
      Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:02 -0500
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 05:12 -0700
        Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 12:50 -0700
          Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 15:28 -0500
            Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 19:35 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 20:55 -0700
              Re: Misconceptions about LIGO Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 10:45 -0500
                Re: Misconceptions about LIGO LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 12:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:10 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 11:21 -0700
  Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-04 23:12 -0700
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:31 -0500
    Re: Fight the LIGO fraud. Sign this Petition "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 18:25 -0700

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