Groups > sci.physics > #572072

Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again
Date	2016-04-21 08:47 -0500
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<nfalks$t16$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <57166f4d$0$53745$c3e8da3$3304c218@news.astraweb.com> <d8141056-25c6-4c51-a82a-7b5486ac47e4@googlegroups.com> <nf61gn$pru$1@pcls7.std.com> <nf62em$1t7e$1@gioia.aioe.org> <34c1398c-c220-4c77-908d-1f561e4a206e@googlegroups.com>

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On 4/19/2016 3:30 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> A 2D surface exists only in your mind, bud
>

It's the boundary of a 3D object, John.

You like to point to 3D things, and you say all real things have 
boundaries and shapes. So get consistent within your own head. Do 
boundaries of 3D objects exist or not?

If you're not sure what a boundary is, I'll give you a concrete 
definition. For any 3D object, a point on the boundary is recognized 
that there are three other kinds of points as nearby as you like: a) 
points on the inside of the 3D object, b) points on the outside of the 
3D object, and c) other points on the boundary.

Now, tell me that boundaries don't really exist.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 16:05 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-18 21:21 +0000
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-18 22:32 +0000
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-18 15:57 -0700
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 21:07 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-19 13:05 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:28 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 15:59 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Boris Mohar <borism_void_@sympatico.ca> - 2016-04-19 06:53 -0400
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 06:34 -0700
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:01 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 13:43 -0400
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:49 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 23:10 -0400
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2016-04-20 03:15 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:05 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 06:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:44 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:40 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:47 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:57 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:08 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:41 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:14 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:52 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 14:22 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 22:16 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 08:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 12:14 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:11 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-20 15:40 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:07 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:25 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 02:40 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 11:44 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 04:59 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 11:32 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:35 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 12:56 -0400
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:41 -0500
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-21 20:30 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:47 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:20 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:25 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:18 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:26 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:35 -0500
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:33 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 13:47 -0400
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:26 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:57 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 12:02 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:18 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-19 19:39 +0000
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:55 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:30 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 08:47 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 18:43 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:54 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 23:21 -0400
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:08 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-19 22:21 +0000
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 15:31 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 07:57 -0500
  Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-19 07:36 -0700
    Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:07 -0500
      Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-21 20:32 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 04:34 -0700
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:09 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 06:28 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:32 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:33 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:30 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:28 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 06:41 -0700
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:50 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:04 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:09 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 12:36 -0400
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:22 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 14:43 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:20 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:42 -0500
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:47 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:25 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:27 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:39 -0500
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 17:00 +0000
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:12 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 17:22 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:32 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:54 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:57 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:27 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:41 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 15:00 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:05 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 13:51 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 12:40 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:46 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:22 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 21:13 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:08 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-24 23:55 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 21:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 01:56 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:58 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:50 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 04:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:02 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:12 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 05:39 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 14:46 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 13:48 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 23:39 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:11 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 16:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 06:39 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 04:44 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 07:01 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 11:52 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 21:37 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-22 14:53 -0400
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 13:52 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-25 08:56 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-25 16:51 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-25 20:24 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-26 14:41 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:09 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:29 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 09:43 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 20:50 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 10:05 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:31 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:42 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:38 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-04 05:26 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 10:55 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-28 19:39 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 10:35 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 08:58 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:37 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:43 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:38 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-30 06:40 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:44 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 07:02 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 12:39 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:15 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-03 14:32 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 05:35 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-04 05:30 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:24 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 11:27 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 13:31 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:12 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:48 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 15:25 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:28 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:44 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-27 07:21 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-27 14:41 +0000
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 12:29 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-27 10:41 -0700
        Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:22 -0500
          Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-04-22 07:34 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:42 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:14 -0700
            Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 09:50 -0500
              Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 08:06 -0700
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 10:16 -0500
                Re: The search for hidden dimensions comes up empty again moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-22 16:51 +0000

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